IUC Exclusive: As Reported Here First It Appears David Carradine Was Murdered
We were the first site to report 
that it was not suicide or auto-erotic asphyxiation or a sudden heart attack. Carradine was murdered. He was a womanizer who had lots of skeletons in his closet – check out today’s article (Daily Telegraph)
- 157 Comments
- Tags: David Carradine
Why was he murdered? Was he robbed?
ReplyHow does one “leave a footprint on a bed?” Was it muddy? Was it bloody? I need more info please.
Replydefinitely $cientology murder (a la Isaac Hayes, Jett Travolta, Lisa McPherson)
anybody else got deets on the TomKat split?
Reply@mooki:
Replywhy would scientology murder him or anyone else – especially a child, Jett Trvaolta?
@ladybert62:
Replyhttp://forums.whyweprotest.net/304-celebrity-news/david-carradine-just-dropped-body-46799/30/#post903046
WOW… “brutal, flirtatious pair of Thai Lady Boys, … transsexual hookers.” lol WOW
ReplyYou would think Scientology would want to KEEP their celebrity members, for money, at least. Hmm. Maybe they are worth more .. dead…
Replyhttp://forums.whyweprotest.net/304-celebrity-news/david-carradine-just-dropped-body-46799/30/#post903046
“David Carradine’s wife is a Scientologist, his kids were Scientologists, he took courses in Scientology, he appeared at Scientology events and most importantly, he FUNDED Scientology.
David Carradine was a Covert Scientologist.
Quote:
Intelligence Analysis is the process of taking known information about situations and entities of strategic, operational, or tactical importance, characterizing the known, and, with appropriate statements of probability, the future actions in those situations and by those entities. The descriptions are drawn from what may only be available in the form of deliberately deceptive information; the analyst must correlate the similarities among deceptions and extract a common truth.
Please read more about analysis here: Intelligence analysis – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The bottom line is this:
Quote:
Intelligence analysis is a way of reducing the ambiguity of highly ambiguous situations, with the ambiguity often very deliberately created by highly intelligent people with mindsets very different from the analyst’s.
In this scenario, Anonymous is the Intelligence Analyst and Scientologists are the mindsets very different from the analysts who are creating disinformation.
Scientologists have long-standing, observable behavior that has been documented.
1. Scientologists have been observed recruiting through marriage.
2. Scientologists arrange marriages either formally or informally.
Cult News from Rick Ross Does Scientology “beard” gay celebrities?
Travolta, Cruise and other celebrities con fans and media
Author goes inside Scientology
3. Scientologists call outsiders “Wogs” or “raw meat.”
4. Scientologists pressure outsiders to join.
5. Scientologists disconnect from supressives or those deemed PTS.
http://www.cultnews.com/?p=2132
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celebrities_con.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/history/history143.html
3. Scientologists call outsiders “Wogs” or “raw meat.”
4. Scientologists pressure outsiders to join.
5. Scientologists disconnect from supressives or those deemed PTS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUf-nzAbOlY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.whyweprotest.net%2F304-celebrity-news%2Fdavid-carradine-just-dropped-body-46799%2F30%2F&feature=player_embedded
6. The only Wogs Scientologists regularly associate with are business relationships/money/publicity sources such as agents, studio heads, etc.
7. Scientologists pursue celebrities, spy on them and control them if possible.
I agree with you that the public is not aware of much of this Scientology behavior, but Anonymous cannot afford to be naive. Anyone married to a Scientologist is 99.9% sure to be a Scientologist and if they are a celebrity like David Carradine, they will be pursued relentlessly, either overtly or covertly to either join, get audited take classes or fund the CULT, until they comply or they will be disconnected.
Why We Protest serves on many levels but one of its most interesting functions is as a watchdog group, gathering intelligence on Scientology activities, funding, behavior patterns, members and suspected members.
One of the main sources of information is eye witness testimony. Many of our DOX are based on eyewitness testimony.
Evidence is not always empirical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_(law
Quote:
The law of evidence governs the use of testimony (e.g., oral or written statements, such as an affidavit) and exhibits (e.g., physical objects) or other documentary material which is admissible (i.e., allowed to be considered by the trier of fact, such as jury) in a judicial or administrative proceeding (e.g., a court of law).
We may not have a signed, sworn statement from Carradine that he was a Scieno, but we have abundant circumstantial evidence.
Quote:
Evidence of an indirect nature which implies the existence of the main fact in question but does not in itself prove it. That is, the existence of the main fact is deduced from the indirect or circumstantial evidence by a process of probable reasoning. The introduction of a defendant’s fingerprints or DNA sample are examples of circumstantial evidence. The fact that a defendant had a motive to commit a crime is circumstantial evidence.
It is possible to argue that all evidence is ultimately circumstantial, on the premises that no experience whatsoever can directly prove a fact. Recall, however, that courts of law deal with what is reasonable, not with ontology.
Covert Scientologists like Will Smith, David Carradine, Neil Gaiman, etc. Should be identified and connected to the CULT. It should be uncomfortable to FUND Scientology, one should face public ridicule. Scientology is offering these people clear benefits; connections to agencies like CAA and powerful acting coaches who can make or break careers. But if the “raw meat” faced a gauntlet of critics, they might think twice before joining and not end up trapped or dead.
Here is some more weird fodder… Why would the Carradine family hire a quack forensic “expert?”
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2009/06/carradine-family-seeks-fbi-help.html
My question is: Does Scientology order murders?
Replyhttp://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/noframes/read/79008
Lawrence Brennen certainly thinks so…
http://scientology-violations.net23.net/
Quote:
4. I have reason to believe that organized scientology will try to prevent me from giving such details, including possibly physical harm to myself. Thus I wish to make one thing clear now. I am of sound mind and happy in my life and look forward to living many more years of life. I have no desire to commit suicide. Should I die and it appear that “I committed suicide” I wish to point out I would never do that and I would wish to request an investigation into organized scientology and Miscavige as potentially being behind my death.
http://www.skeptictank.org/r2-45.htm
@ladybert62:It is rumored that Jett was seriously developmentally disabled – to the point he required 24 hour mannies. He was becoming very inconvenient.
ReplyMurder is more palatable the Autoeroticasphyxiation.
ReplyI don’t know alot about Scientology, but aren’t these “urges” to be supressed ? Maybe im wrong.
ReplyAh, Ian has a new ad banner for Papa Johns! Wait… 3 pizzas for $7… thats 21… blackjack… hmmm
Reply… 3.. trio.. AJ threesome…
I still believe David picked up a hooker, male or female, had kinky sex and it went wrong. David died, and the sex partner paniced and left. Originally there were no reports of theft, or the room looking searched. David’s ex-wives stated this was his favorite sexual practice also. They also proved by autopsy that David had an orgasm shortly before he died, so he was not in fear of anyone, but lost in his perversion.
ReplyVery sad!
ReplyGave in to curiosity about the GLOBE article. It states that there are 700,000-plus prostitutes in Thailand.
Also, even though the nearest police station was less than a half-mile away, it took more than a half hr for cops to arrive on the scene.
It was a thoroughly bungled investigation. Seems that each investigator has his own theory of what went wrong. Evidence has been tampered with and much of what’s left isn’t of much use.
Tourism is a top source of revenue for Thailand. And sex is a highly sought after industry. And so it will probably never be cleared up to the satisfaction of his survivors; it will be part of Hollywood’s and Thailand’s unsolved mysteries. JMO!
ReplyMurdered by a tag-team of Thai Ladyboys? This just gets more and more depressingly sordid . . .
ReplyBoth of those sources “believe” he was murdered, I have yet to see any evidence of this. One source is a friend of his so naturally he will want to believe anything other than suicide or sexual accident, and the other is a former FBI agent who likewise “believes” he was murdered with no evidence to go by.
The actual forensic experts who examined his body and the crime scene itself have ruled out BOTH suicide and homicide, the sex play gone wrong theory still holds more weight in my opinion (especially since he reportedly had an orgasm right before strangulating).
ReplyI wasn’t aware any concrete conclusions had been reached. I haven’t seen the results mentioning homicide … only that suicide was ruled out. I agree with you, though. I think it was sex gone bad too. JMO, though.
ReplySo a producer friend of Carradine believing that the “ladies`s man” hooked up with two transvestiles and was murdered by them is a PROOF that he was murdered? YOU must be joking Ian! A drug test (as part of an official authopsy report) confirming that he had a lethal dosis of drugs in his body might be a proof! But definately not a dream of a friend (as in a former thread) or a simple suggestian!
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyCompletely agree – it’s the most logical conclusion and given his proclivities, it just makes it all the more possible for something to have gone wrong and the other person to have panicked and left. Quite often with autoerotic asphyxiation, one will take it to the actual point of passing out simultaneously or moments after orgasm. This leads to quite a few accidental deaths.
@Different Guest:
Re Jett: I know his father loved him immensely. John Travolta is actually a very loving man. He hasn’t even done any press for ‘The Taking of Pelham 123 because he’s still hurting. Denzel Washington has been most of the hype so far and has defended Travolta. The only thing that I ever heard that kind of shocked me was one of my friends was at the movies in Century City and Kelly Preston was there with Jett and their other child, plus a minder (I guess for Jett). She sat one row ahead of Jett with her daughter. Jett was shuffling around and starting to make a little bit of noise. Kelly turned and snapped at the minder to “do something about Jett. Just take care of it NOW”. My friend was so surprised how snappy she was and how bothered she seemed that Jett was there. It freaked her out enough that she called me as soon as she left the theatre.
In scientology, it is looked down upon to have a family member that is not high functioning in their mental capacity. At some point, the church usually writes those people off. But I cannot believe and won’t believe that there was any possible way that they took one of their most famous members and knocked off his son – it would serve them absolutely no purpose and if Travolta found out, he’d blow the lid wide open on the church. They may have some stuff on Travolta to do with his sexuality but there was a point when Travolta was entertaining going public with it. It was the Scientologists that had to convince him not to. So yeah, I think they’d be playing with fire if they f*cked with JT.
Reply@Different Guest:
Replyinconvenient to whom? Scientology? This makes no sense to me. Sorry.
@Chris G.:
“One source is a friend of his so naturally he will want to believe anything other than suicide or sexual accident…”
That’s absolute rubbish, it doesn’t follow at all. A friend could have absolutely any attitude to it, including wanting the whole thing to not be talked about any more so they never have to think about their friend in that way ever again. As far as I know friends come in all shapes and sizes and can have any one of many motivations and attitudes. It’s a bit of a major stretch to say the source is a friend and therefore all friends would automatically think a certain thing. There is no basis on which to make that assumption.
Reply@ladybert62:Did you see Harikarigirl’s post. Scientology does not approve of disabled children.
Reply@harikari girl:Seems to me Kelly has always been the one more uncomfortable with Jett, I remember someone claiming that she has another child, also disabled from her marriage to her first husband and that he raised the child. I’m glad to hear that John loved his child. For me, having worked with special needs children, the reports about Jett’s death just don’t add up. The minders are Scientologists very likely under the Church’s control, not the Travolta’s. From what little I’ve seen/read about Jett, he may have been getting to point where they couldn’t keep him at home safely – particularly if the Church is so dead set against pyschotropic medication.
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
Whatever you say, Keane, but it is still far more of a stretch to claim with certainty, as Ian has, that he WAS murdered based on the unfounded BELIEFS of two unknowns that aren’t even remotely part of the case at all.
Here are quotes from two sources who actually investigated the case and his body, forensically:
“There was a rope tied around his neck and another rope tied to his genitals, and the two ropes were tied together and they hung in the closet.” -Worapong Siewpreecha (Chief of Police)
“It was neither suicide nor murder, he died after he had an orgasm.” -Porntip Rojanasunan (Forensic Doctor)
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplySo let me see if I understand this: scientology does not approve of disabled children, scientology does not approve of medication to help normalize or control disabled children, but scientology would approve of murder to eliminate a disabled child?
@ladybert62:Yes, I remember seeing a quote from L. Ron Hubbard where basically said the disabled should be killed.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyWhy do these people join scientology? What do the members get out of it? From the very little I know about this religion, it is mainly concerned with mind and behavior control. But why? At least in a conventional religion, the mind and behavior control is followed by members so they get a delayed reward in heaven – does scientology also preach that following their rules now on earth will earn the member a delayed gratification in heaven?
@Different Guest:
ReplyNo kidding? Why? I dont understand this religion – will have to look into it. Interestingly, a new office just opened two blocks away which is a Scientology “branch”. It doesnt look like a church or temple but like a regular office with a big sign that says things like “Learn about yourself”. I am NOT going to go there as I do not like proselytizing in any form – but I might try to find internet info. I guess it it considered a church in the legal sense but I dont understand what its members get out of it.
@ladybert62:Hell no, it’s all about me, me, me in the here and now. There was a well known acting coach, who died last year, or the year before, Milton Katelas, who sucked a lot of actors into the “Church”. L. Ron saw the benefits of having celebrities in his religion so he catered to them. The regular members get sucked in because they are vulnerable. Look at how many people still think AJ walks on water. Scoring John Travolta early in his career when he was hot, I’m sure drew many in. In L.A. they may use meeting celebrities as a carrot to draw people in.
Reply@ladybert62:DO NOT take their personality quiz online, I know someone who was harassed for a year via email and phone trying to get her to join.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyBut why do they stay in it and why do they follow their rules? All I know about it is the little I have read concerning its famous members (Cruise, Travolta etc). It seems to have offered them something to help them control the wildness in their lives (as compared to say evil Ms. Jolie and hapless Mr. Pitt), but other than a set of rules that says “Do this, dont do that” – why would one person join, change their lives and follow the rules? Especially these hollywood people who are so hedonistic and seem to see the world as revolving around themselves – this church must give them something in return for changed behavior.
@Different Guest:
ReplyReally – wow – thanks for the advice. I will not take any of their quizzes nor will I even contact them. I was just thinking about some general literature on the web that explains about the religion as I dont understand its appeal to anyone.
@ladybert62:Blackmail, one of the first things you do is to be audited, you tell all of your discretions. JT, TC, have always been dogged by rumors of homosexuality, Co$ claims to cure homosexuality, Kirstie Alley and Jenna Elfman are admitted drug abusers, interestingly many of the celebrities are also high school dropouts.
Reply@Chris G.:
I actually wasn’t taking issue with your argument, I have no knowledge of this case, barely know who this man is and am not interested in it. I was just saying that your point that a friend would automatically want to think the cause of death was anything other than suicide or death by sexual misadventure was totally bogus. I think its actually more likely that they would want to find out exactly what happened to them than care exactly how it happened. Its not like there’s great shame in it after the death of Michael Hutchence. I have no idea whether what Ian is suggesting is true on this subject but I’m just saying that if you’re going to make an argument against it, what you said does not support that argument at all.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:In the U.S. there still great shame attached both to suicide and AEA. Especially to AEA. You have to remember that in many ways the U.S. is still very puritanical with regard to sex and sexuality.
Reply@ladybert62:
I heard they actively target young hopefuls when they come to HW to try to get into the film business. They invite them along to meetings with promises of helping introduce them to managers/agents and getting them auditions. Plus there are the major celeb ones who perhaps struggling actors feel they may meet and thus get help with their career. If you think a lot of struggling actors resort to prostitution or whatever to get by, its obvious they would try anything to get ahead. And as Different Guest says, they do the audits and then they’ve got you. If you don’t donate or say you are quitting your secrets are revealed. Plus they offer a supposed “cure” for homosexuality which some people still think is possible/desirable. You know the reason Nicole Kidman didn’t get custody of her children with Criuse was because of the info scientologists threatened to expose on her right? Why would a father ever normally get full or primary cutsody of the kids otherwise? I was approached by leafleting scientos in London once, I just walked straight by. But I should have said, well I’m a homosexual, do you still want me? On the other hand, maybe that would not be such a good idea, might encourage them to try to “cure” me, ha ha!
Reply@Different Guest:
But Carradine, I don’t know much about him, but he was known to be a pretty out there guy right? He was hardly Mr Middle America Family Man no?
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:That would definitely be the wrong thing to say. They would have followed you wherever you were going.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:Yes, but the U.S. pysche is still warped about anything sexual. People who have no problem with masturbation, do have problems with AEA.
Reply@ladybert62:
@Different Guest:
*So let me see if I understand this: scientology does not approve of disabled children, scientology does not approve of medication to help normalize or control disabled children, but scientology would approve of murder to eliminate a disabled child?”
They do not believe in any type of mental disorders. They do not believe in psychiatry – they are violently opposed to it and have stated that they will do anything to bring it down one day. They do not believe in nor allow their members to use psychiatric drugs. Instead,they believe in fasts, saunas, detoxes (often quite extreme) to take the place of regular medicine. Also, they attribute one’s problems to the thetans that are still lingering in your body. The only way to release the millions of thetan souls in your head is through auditing. The more auditing that is involved, the better for the church. First of all you’re paying good money for these classes, secondly by using the e-meter on you and keeping you in session for hours, it draws you one further into their web – essentially brain washing. To reach operating level in the church, you need more classes and more auditing. There are different levels – the goal you first shoot for is the “Clear” Level – this means you have a good chance of ‘crossing the bridge’. Eventually, you rise above Clear and you go up to Operating Thetan VII. The church also has you sign a “billion year contract” with them.
Basically, here’s what happened: 75 million years ago, Xenu, the intergalactic leader brought millions of people to earth, stuck them all in volcanos and then detonated hydrogen bombs to kill all these people. Their bodies died, but their souls remained trapped finally over time flowing out across the earth. The souls then attached themselves in large clusters to the general population. We are walking around with the souls of the victims of Xenu and this is what makes someone think they havea psych problem, or maybe their dyslexic, or maybe they’ve just had a tough life. Not true say the scientologists – it is the thetan souls that dragging you down – by belief, study and classes, you can exorcize these alien souls and become an actual operating Thetan.
Know that was long winded and do apologise for that – but I also just saved you about 50 grand!!!!
Reply@harikari girl:I think you meant to respond to Ladybert, I’m all too familiar with the Co$, saw it rip apart a family in the 80’s.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
ReplyThat was very interesting info Keane. It makes sense to me now that Scientology could entrap the “new to Hollywood” people and once Scientology was in possession of their secrets, they blackmailed them into enforced continuation of their membership. That actually really makes more sense to me than just the generic idea of “we are a church, come join” – especially if there is no promise of salvation in the bargain. your explanation is intriguing. From the little bit of the “come on” that I have seen advertisied in the windows of the newly opened Scientology Office in our neighborhood (and believe me I have no idea why they are in this neighborhood), it seems to be offering a “pop psychology” approach to self enlightenment! “Come to us to learn about yourself” – then (according to your explanation), once they reveal their deepest darkest secrets, they can never leave for fear of exposure.
@Different Guest:
ReplySorry, yes I was responding to Ladybert – I put that at the top of my post. I just copied and pasted what you had said in order to respond to Ladybert’s questions.
@harikari girl:
ReplyThank you Harikari Girl for the explanation and for the monetary savings! Quite a cosmological explanation for the creation of the world and humans and all the problems that humans have. Do they believe in free will? And it is ironic that they believe they can “cure” homosexuality and in the same breath say they are against psychology since until fairly recently, the psychologists themselves said homosexuality could be “cured.”
@harikari girl:no need to apologize. Hmm you mean the Co$ hasn’t raised their prices? It was minimum $50,000 back in the 80’s.
Reply@harikari girl: Ok, now I see it was my error, sorry the red on black is hard on my eyes.
Reply@harikari girl:
I’ve also heard that there are expensive books that you have to buy at every stage to learn all the “theology” and progress on to the next stage. The top stages are supposed to reveal the key to the meaning of the universe or something and is shrouded in mystery so people want to keep paying for the classes and buying the books to find out what it is. I also heard that part of it said that scientos were told they could learn how to walk through walls but that it would only be once they had done all the audits and read all the bools and progressed to the top stage that they would know how to do it. By the time people have attained that level they are so indoctrinated and brainwashed and would be so destroyed if they thought all their study and efforts had been pointless that they convince themselves that they can. Let’s face it, none of these scientos are too clever are they?! I also heard that L. Ron Hubbard confessed on his deathbed that “if you wanted to make a lot of money, invent a religion” which would be an accurate assessment of what scientology is to me i.e. essentially a pyramid selling scheme. I have no idea whether any of this stuff is in fact true but it is what I have heard (expect the pyramid selling scheme bit of course, that is quite obviously a fact!).
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyMy, that really is interesting. I can see where someone could get hooked – it almost sounds like a “science fiction” explanation of the world and humans and it offers what probably seems at first to be an organic, natural approach to self improvement. Then, it makes sense that it hates psychiatry if Scientology is saying that we our “bad behaviors” are not really our fault but are caused by thetans existing in our being (dang, the devil made me do it!) and if we purge the evil thetan from our being, then we are restored to a pure state of being.
@ladybert62:
They have scientos everywhere, in every small town in every backwater of the UK for sure. Members of my family have been approached, naive ones who were very vulnerable at the time. This is how they get people involved. I was horrified when I heard they had agreed to a “personality test”.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
ReplyI could be wrong, but I think in California, it is legally classified as a religion and thus exempt from taxes.
@Different Guest:
ReplyYeah, it’s more like over 100 grand – but I split the difference because I only gave Ladybert a 1/2 education…
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
ReplyReally, they are prominent in Britain? As far as I know, I have never even met one (except now that they have invaded my neighborhood by opening that new office maybe such luck is over). I also see the allure of the personality test! Everyone wants to learn about themselves (well, at least I find myself interesting – ha ha) and everyone admits to having failings (well, ok, except socio and psychopaths!) – and if this religion offers the promise of a cure without the guilt imposed by regular religion (sounds suspiciously like psychology again), I can see its attraction.
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:Actually he said it long before he died.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyYou make me laugh out loud – real loud! – to that one harikari girl!
@ladybert62:It’s federal, they sued the IRS, not just for the tax deduction but for first amendment protection.
Reply@ladybert62:L. Ron Hubbard hated psychiatry because he’d been involuntarily committed. I believe when died, the autopsy revealed a veritable cocktail of psychotropic drugs in his system.
Reply@ladybert62:
ReplyDang, maybe I should go sign up and save myself – oops, forgot, I am broke! Ha ha – do they offer online courses? (Cant stop myself folks, its the Baileys, oops, I mean the thetans!) Cant wait to tell hubby (who retreated to work after cutting the grass, didnt think I was that cranky) about this new religion! We will be laughing about this one all night. And sorry to any “true believers” out there reading this – dont mean to hurt your feelings so please dont take it personally.
So back to Scientology and their dislike of disabled or mental challenged children like Jett Travolta: so to the upper echelons of Scientology, the total elimination of such a person is justified because ….. – why? This still eludes me. They are cleansing the world of impure thetans and thus improving the world?
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyDang, you are making my day with info today Different Guest! So the founder of this religion (who probably dreamed it up while tripping) disavowed any and all drugs but like the hypocrite Jim Jones, this L. Ron Hubbard was totally stoned when he died? This is hysterical.
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
Yes, you’re right. They are always pushing you to buy more classses, do more auditing. Then there are the L. Ron Hubbard tapes which they charge you a sweet for. L. Ron Hubbard was seriously mentally ill – that’s been documented – a lot of anti cult people believe this was what made him first start to fixate on psychiatry and it’s demise. Instead of theology, they call it tech. Making it an operating Thetan IIV or supposedly there is VIII takes houdreds and houdreds of hours. So… by the time they open their archives and show you the big secrets you’re already so far gone down the road that a large percentage believe it. But it can cause people to meltdown, especially the OT VII information. When Tom Cruise was first shown ‘the truth’, he basically had a mental breakdown. Although he had totally drank the Kool Aid for years, he just couldn’t get his mind around it. The COS immediately took him out on one of their yachts with the sea corp (there most elite and ardent parishioners). They decompressed him over the course of 2 weeks and then he seemed to stabilize
And yes, they do target young hollywood, especially if you are starting to make headway. It has happened to me and it has happened to my boyfriend A lot of people have gone in for a class or 2, and then left, decided it wasn’t for them. In fact, since we are on a supposed Brangie blog, it seems all the more fitting to mention the fact that Brad Pitt did take a couple of courses there – might have been because he dated Juliette Lewis as she was born into a COS family. I don’t know if that was the reason but our very own Brad did engage in some beginner’s classes with the ‘church’.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyI cant stop – this is absolutely one of the most fascinating things I have heard this week – why was he committed? By whom? For how long? Why was he released? Questions, questions, questions ……
And back to Keane’s comment re Nicole Kidman while she was married to True Believe Cruise – when they divorced, he got the kid(s) they adopted, because ….. Scientology had secrets on lovely Ms. Kidman that they would reveal unless she gave up the kiddies? What secret? (well, ladybert62 dummy, it was a secret so probably no one knows!….)
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyDang, dont stop now Harikari Girl – this has the makings of a fascinating movie. True Believer Cruise had a mental breakdown because of the ultimate truth they revealed to him? This is so interesting – sounds like the movie Matrix!
@harikari girl:
ReplyIf you dont mind my asking, and if you dont want to discuss, just tell me to shut up. But it happened to you? Do you mean you were approached to join or did you actually take some of their courses? I also find it interesting that hapless Mr. Pitt possibly was a member – if he fell under the influence of evil Ms. Jolie (she who is the Dark Queen of mind control, in my opinion), then I find it believeable that he had joined Scientology (I assume COS means Church of Scientology).
@ladybert62:Sci’s are supposed to be better than the rest of us, no illness, or imperfections. In college I volunteered in a program that served multiply handicapped children, one of them who was autistic among other things, was reasonably ok behaviorally until he hit puberty, he shot up and the hormones and his strength started to create real problems if he got physical with someone, in one incident he started punching and kicking his mother while she was driving. In his case he was the youngest child. Having a manny on duty at all times could indicate that he needed to be controlled especially since there is a younger child. And said younger child may be going into the film business, people have talked about how the JT’s would take Ella to premieres of kids movies but not Jett. There are very few photos of Jett. I remember seeing one with Kelly and Ella as an infant and wondering about him.
Reply@harikari girl:
You must know of this guy if you’ve worked with the BBC. His name is John Sweeney and he’s on some show called Panorama. He was over here in America doing a news piece on them and they kept pushing him and pushing him – did all this crazy stuff and he finally got furious and got into a screaming fight with one of the church’s main handlers. The Scientologists put out a video of just the part where Sweeney’s yelling, trying to use that clip to discredit Sweeney as a journalist. Sweeney however had put everything that happened on tape and so when it was broadcast as a whole, you could see how and why it had escalated. I found it on YouTube and we don’t have the program here, but you might know better given that you’re in England and knowledgable on BBC’s programming.
Reply@Different Guest:The other thing is last year, a restaurant manager in Clearwater, who has an autistic child, and the Travoltas ate at his restaurant called them out about Jett, six months later he was dead from “suicide.”
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyThank you Different Guest – this is so interesting. So you think it is possible that Jett Travolta was reaching the age where his physical actions were starting to be out of control. Wasnt Jett taking medications to control whatever he had? I thought I read that he was taking something because he had seizures (I thought it was epilepsy). I thought he had fallen due to a seizure and had hit his head so hard that he had died. So, if John Travolta and wife are Scientologists, how did they justify Jett’s taking the medication? Or did this cause John problems with the COS?
@Different Guest:
ReplyMy goodness – so it is possible that the COS (like the Jim Jones cult) is actually so bizarre that they are killing people who criticize them? This conspiracy theory about the COS is totally new to me.
@Different Guest:
ReplyJust re-read this for about the fifth time, sorry for being so slow today. So the “minders” were the ones taking care of Jett Travolta? And you are suggesting that they caused, participated, or failed to prevent his death? This is shocking to me.
@ladybert62:L.Ron was in favor of killing anyone who didn’t agree with him. There have been more than a few suspicious deaths that have ties to the Sci’s.
This is just strictly my opinion. What raised my hackles were the original reports that Jett lay on the bathroom floor for 12 hours before anyone found him, then suddenly there was all this backtracking. The bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house for someone with a seizure disorder or the elderly or someone with balance problems, lots of hard surfaces to hit your head on, so you never, ever leave unattended in the bathroom. If you have control of someone’s medication you can alleviate or exacerbate their condition to suit your purposes.
Reply@ladybert62:There was quite a stink about whether or not he was really taking any medication.
Reply@ladybert62:
Yes, I’ve been approached twice by different church recruiters but I don’t think it’s that strange to be approached out here in LA by scientologists. They gave me the creeps though as they had this actress work on me for several months before she then tried to get me to come in to the church. She would have people around her all the time that were ‘just friends’ and they would engage with me and ask me questions and I’m pretty unfiltered so I answered and didn’t think anything of it. But then we she tried to convert me, she and her friends would bring up things about my life and I realised that they had been sitting there benignly keeping records of everything I said and every detail they had come to find out about my life. it made me more than a little paranoid and then I started to find out all the little secrets and that’s the only reason I can offer any information on COS (Church of Scientology).
They are malicious, spiteful, paranoid, heartless. They have something called Fair Game. Basically it states that enemies of the church or SP’s are open to Fair game. Once Fair game is in action, it is stated “May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed (in private church documents destroyed can also mean the taking of the human’s life). And that under Fair Game, that the Scientologist bears no blame nor should he incur any penalty nor punishment for the above actions.
Reply@harikari girl:And that is why the internet will be their downfall. They thrive on secrecy.
Reply@harikari girl:
Yeah, that was quite a famous clip here in the UK. I didn’t see the whole programme as I find the topic of Scientology a bit tedious – its essentially just a pyramid selling scheme masquerading as a religion which preys on the vulnerable and uneducated – but the excerpt where he went mental was all over the news. He was very embarrassed about it though if I remember rightly, he said he thought he looked like an “exploding tomato” when he watched the clip back and was cross with himself that he lost his cool. I’m not sure what led up to it though. There was another doc where a comedian tried out scientology as a “religion” and they showed him doing audits etc. The sciento who was mentoring him (would you call it that?) seemed very likable and normal and the comedian guy thought it was all pretty harmless. Obviously it was designed to look that way on behalf of the “church” I would have thought, the “friendly face” of scientology if you will. But yeah, it boggles my mind that a so-called religion that views physical and learning disabilites and mental illnesses as shameful and undesirable and homosexuality as something which can and should be cured is allowed to exist and practice in the western world. Can they say “fascist” at all? Its very peculiar.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyMy goodness, I did not know he laid there that long. For some reason, I had the impression that he was found shortly after it happened. This whole scenario that you are laying out for me is shocking indeed.
@harikari girl:
ReplyMy goodness, my eyes are being opened! I truly had no idea of this – I thought it was just another harmless church that happened to be prominent in the LA area and thus the reason for so many celebrity members. It sounds truly diabolic!
@ladybert62:they changed their story. Which raises the question why did someone say he lay there for 12 hours.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyIn my experience, usually the first “expression” out of someone’s mouth is the truth and if it after the statement is uttered that one backtracks (oh so true ladybert62 in your life! I am surprised I have not swalllowed my own tongue trying to backtrack on the embarrassing things to spew from my mouth!) Ha ha – laughing at my own experiences!
Same here. There have been rumors over the years that Travolta wanted out of the Co$.
Reply@ladybert62:
Jett was on seizure medication which would be slightly more accepted by COS. But he had been on it and then taken off of it at some point. Preston defended this by saying that they kept using it until the medication no longer worked. There are doctors that will say that’s true of medications and seizures. But usually you do not take the patient off meds fully, you merely change to a different anti-seizure med. There were reports that he was not on the meds when he died and conflicting reports that he was ‘back on them’.
The other thing about Jett was the fact that Preston said he suffered for Kawasaki syndrome – developed it at about a year and a half. Nobody knows the root cause of Kawasaki but it’s believed to be brought on by household cleaners. However, it was rumoured that Jett’s real underlying problem was autism. The Travoltas always denied that The only thing that is certain is the fact that he did suffer from seizures – whether he had Kawasaki or autism, that’s something only his family would be able to comment on. Autism would, however, explain why John would take his little girl to movie premieres but not his son. I know that John adored his boy, but autistics can be very hard to deal with switch into another mode very quickly. I think Travolta didn’t take him out on these occasions for 2 reasons: 1) the possible outbreaks he could have had while at a premiere. 2) to give his son some dignity – i mean can you imagine being in a theatre with tons of industry people and your son starts acting out and then has a seizure? That’s a personal matter, not just for the parent but also for the child – it’s nobody’s business to witness that.
Reply“it boggles my mind that a so-called religion that views physical and learning disabilites and mental illnesses as shameful and undesirable and homosexuality as something which can and should be cured is allowed to exist and practice in the western world” – Keane, these words you uttered above, just describe so much of the history of christian religion in the western world! Think puritanism and Calvanism back during the Elizabeth I period and there you have it!. Religion is changing in the western world but slowly, slowly. Oh, I know I will get slammed for this comment – but I am just looking at the history of religion and how it has historicall condemned what it did not understand. So please, dear posters, does take it personal and dont get insulted. Peace to all.
Reply@ladybert62:
ReplySorry for typos, sweet hubby came home and I was trying to type this comment and explain to him all that I have learned about COS! My brain, eyes and fat fingers are never very co-ordinated (even when I am not 3 glasses of Baileys to the wind)!
@ladybert62:more wars have been started over religion than anything else.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyGosh, thanks for that info Harikari Girl – I think my respect quotient for John Travolta just went up a notch.
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:L. Ron was a facist.
Reply@harikari girl:the only problem is that Kawaski resolves by about age 5. She also tried to blame it on chemicals used in their house when he was young. There was video out there taken in Paris in December of the family coming out of a hotel and Kelly tryin to lead the paps away from the manny trying to get Jett into a waiting van, the manny had to fasten the seat belt for him. It pissed me off, because they had to know the paps were there and to deliberately lead him into that onslaught, I’m surprised he didn’t have a seizure. Looking back I will always wonder if that was John’s fu to the church about I will take my child out in public.
Reply@Different Guest:
Notice I leave a lot of typos in my writing – excuse my lack of clarity today. It’s just that last night at 1 am I had the ‘Ultimate’ Hollywood Hills experience. My dog and I went outside and a skunk sprayed us. BF had to go to the drugstore for this mixture for us to wash in and I spent 45 minutes outside with no outer clothes on, freezing, with the dog whilst waiting for him to get back. Turned into night from hell – very tired today.
Reply@harikari girl:Future reference tomato juice is supposed to work wonders on skunk spray.
Reply@mooki:@harikari girl:
ReplyMY GOD – that is the ULTIMATE nighmare experience for dog walking that I have ever heard! You have my sincere sympathy – how horrible!
@Different Guest:
ReplyTruer words were never typed! Religious wars have controlled history in the past, still do in the present and sad to say, will do so in the future!
@Different Guest:
Replyand I think my respect quota for Mrs. Travolta has gone down a notch!
@mooki:
ReplyHI Mooki, I was tying to respond to your long comment when I got distracted by Harikari Girl’s horror story about being “skunked”! Anyway, the first time around, I just skipped over your quote but now that my eyes are open to the terrors of COS, I have gone back and reread and looked at what you presented. Thank you for all that information. I am even considering buying Ian’s book on the COS (if it is on Kindle, as I read a hardback book last weekend and almost ended up in tears from the pain it caused my arthritic hands in holding it).
@Different Guest:
Yeah, on the web you can find Prestons’s interview with Oprah (maybe), I don’t know with who. But she detailed how he’d gotten sick and had temperatures of 104 and 105 and they’d taken him to the hospital and the doctors couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him. And then once he was diagnosed with Kawasaki, she said she was in this hospital waiting room with all these other mothers with kids with Kawasaki and that they were all given a 50 question survey. And that one of the things on the questionnaire was whether you had your carpets cleaned. Preston started asking the other mothers in the room and they all had had professional carpet cleaners come into their homes and she thus felt that that was why that question was on survey and was the probable cause of Jett’s illness.
I still think Jett was autistic with a history of seizures. My nephew is autistic and there’s a certain look on an autistic child’s face – a certain resemblance they have to each other in some formation of the face. And then there’s the eyes, like they’re not quite there with you. My nephew’s dad has been incredible. INCREDIBLE. He’s a really respected social worker/psychologist – anyway, by 2 the child was already showing really disturbing signs. The doctors monitored him over the next year – said the case was hopeless, the child would likely never make contact. His father would not give in though – that man has worked with that child beyond anything you could believe – day and night. He’s 8 now and completely interacts and plays with his cousins, gets to regular school, can form relationships. Only thing is you do catch him now or then fixating on an object or point in the distance – you just have to gently usher him back. But his dad believed that with the autistic child there is a disconnect and that what you have to do is treat each child differently and try to find a way into that child’s brain and then slowly bring them out of their head and into the world.
Don”t know how relevant that all was but I think I went off on a tangent because sometimes it’s all about love and embracing the child, acknowledging their imperfection and then just diving off the deep end to find the child’s hand in the dark and help bring them into the light. Kelly Preston doesn’t seem like she was too into that. Travolta though seemed to always be very soft with this boy.
Reply@harikari girl:
Oh, I thought you said you were married? That you and your hubby were having issues and were on the verge of splitting but he wanted to keep up a facade of togetherness for the sake of work?
Reply@Different Guest:
Called Animal Specialty Group out here and they said no to the tomato juice. They said it only serves to try to cover the smell. They gave us a ‘recipe’ which was part baking soda, part dove dishwashing soap (they stressed it had to be dove), cold water – no warm water because it changes the potency of the wash. We got him in the shower and washing him down just once and the smell was gone.
(But I did still get tomato juice just in case and had alreaady used 3 bottles on him)!
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyThank you for sharing that Harikari Girl – that is a beautiful and inspiring story. And your comments at the end are emotional and poetic. Thank you for being here with us.
Dear Ian – didnt you write a book on the Church of Scientology? I tried to find it on Amazon.com and could not (I found others you wrote but not about Scientology). Please provide me with the name of the book so I can track it down – perhaps it wasnt a book but a television program or a documentary? Anyway, thanks for your time and any info you can give me. Ladybert62.
Reply@ladybert62:
Wasn’t as bad off as my bf. He has a long haired St. Bernard. 2 years ago he was walking him in the hills and the dog made a lunge towards this skunk and my bf stepped in fast trying to avert the situation and the dog got it all over his head and shoulders and stomach and my bf got it in the face. We had only ever heard of the tomato juice recipe at that point. So I had to run to the store like at 2 in the morning and bf and dog had to wait outside for me and it was in the winter on one of the chilliest nights that year, in the hills which means it’s always cooler than the temp down below and the 2 of them stood out there freezing. And then bf had to take his dog (2/3) white hair and douse him with 10 bottles of tomato juice. Just getting the red from the juice off of the dog took hours. and all down outside stripped down with the temp at 38 degrees -
there, that’s my horror story today for any dog owners out there.
ReplyGot the recipe wrong up above, here it is.
Here’s the recipe the animal specialist’s gave us:
1 quart Hydrogen Peroxice
1/4 cup of baking soda
1 teaspoon of Dawn (preferably)
mix all three in a bucket and then wash dog with it. if you believe it tomato juice, then lather dog up with tomato juice first, rinse and then proceed to the peroxide formula.
Reply@harikari girl:
Replymy oh my! Horror story is right! Dang, I am going to get some deskunker stuff before we permanently move to Oregon in the next few years. we have some skunks in golden gate park (I know only because I have smelled them) but I have never met any – but I have met the racoons that run rampart in our part of The City! Dang, they are the bosses of the neighborhood and they are HUGH! I had no idea racoons could climb fences, trees, get into houses, kill cats and generally terrorize the area until I moved to SF all those hundreds of years ago! But they are so darn cute to look at! Laughing at my own inconsistency here.
@harikari girl:
ReplyThanks! I am writing this down for our future use! Thanks for sharing it.
@harikari girl:You have a spot dog! I knew there was a reason I liked you! I grew up with the Mr. Spot, aka lambchop, the Saint Bernard. Good to know about the tomato juice not working. The only skunks I’ve encountered thus far have been road kill.
I also think that Jett was autistic and that the Travoltas were in denial at first. Just my opinion but Kelly has never struck as being all that into motherhood. I can understand why Nicole Kidman wouldn’t want to rock the boat, Conor and Isabella are healthy normal kids. If I had a disabled child no church could threaten me to stop trying to find help for my child.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
No, not married but have been together a long time and were at the beginning of adoption proceedings. My adoption attorney advised me to apply as a single mother as a lot of international countries will only take singles or marrieds. They will allow the adoption to go through even if you have a long term partner in the house, they just approve you or let you go up in front of the court if both your name and his name is on the petition to adopt. Once back in the USA, you can then just go down to your courthouse and have him legally adopt the child also.
And yes, your memory is correct – he still wishes for us to keep it private that we are, for all intents and purposes, split. I don’t care, if he wants it that way, then so be it. I’ve gone from a place of emotional pain to a numbness and indifference. People in this town know us as a couple. Hell we’ve been together long enough for most people to consider us married and we just bought this house together. You see? That’s why I got so upset. Getting the house, the adoption papers going – all this stuff – and after all these years he blind slides me. And that’s the story morning glory.
Reply@harikari girl:Well, I certainly hope you get the house. In some ways though it’s a good thing that you hadn’t completed the adoption. Are you planning to go through with it? You sound like you’d make a great Mom.
Reply@Different Guest:
you seem to know quite a bit about the church so i was wondering if you’ve seen the tribute to Cruise when the COS gave him their “Medal of Valour” and made that 20 minute hokey film about him – part of it being with an interview with Cruise (completely whacked out because he’s using all Sci slang) – and then David Miscavige gives him the medal and he gives his speech???
The scientologists got so pissed that that was aired, but most everyone I know out here sat down and watched it just to see what the big deal was. Pretty much everyone was like “OMG’ after they’d seen it.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyYes, I’d like to very much go ahead with the adoption. I have to start a lot of it from scratch though. And figure out how we’re going to deal with the house. It’ll definitely postpone the process but I hope that I get the chance to do it and be a mum. I’d like to raise my child the way my mother raised me before she died when I was young. I’d really like to take that side of me that comes from her and give it to someone else.
@harikari girl:I couldn’t stomach the entire thing, certainly let his crazy loose. I lived in So Cal from 10-27 and then for a year in the late 80’s. Like I posted, there was a family in the church I belonged to as a child that was torn apart by the Sci’s. It’s kind of surprising in some ways that I didn’t sucked into it, I was very vulnerable in the teen years, but I’ve always had a bad habit of thinking for myself.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplySo sad Harikari Girl – I understand your pain. My first marriage happened when I was so young and naive it is now hard to believe I ever was that way. He was (still is I suppose) an identical triplet. We got married and immediately had trouble (for reasons I did not understand then but do now). After 5 years of marriage (during which time we eventually ended up in SF from the midwest), he told me he was leaving me to go live with ‘Ron.” Imagine, my shock and pain, I had never heard of such an idea and when he eventually explained it all to me, I was in even more shock and pain as the entire concept of mano with mano was foreign to me (we are talking about pre-history here ladies). I knew in the marriage that he had issues he was dealing with concerning being a triplet but as to the homosexuality, well, I was truly clueless. After many many years later, I now understand him and I NO longer blame ME for the breakup – but it took many years and hours of introspection for me to grasp it all and come to terms of understanding. Of course, looking back I see that the breakup was for the best but being blindsided by someone I loved was difficult. So, I understand pain in relationships and can only say: “Believe in yourself, Harikari Girl, love yourself and take care of yourself. Love of another will come again once you get through the pain and loneliness and self doubt that is inevitable now.”
@harikari girl:Thinking about it you know what it reminded me of was Wayne Dyer’s spiels on public televison (one was on last night) where if you pay attention you realize they aren’t really saying anything.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
keane,
as far as Sweeney freaking out – he had just gone through an exhibit they had up – almost like a walk through museum – and I think they had some offensive pictures from the Holocaust and they tried to connect that to what psychiatry is. He has been to Clearview Florida first, which is where their headquarters are and then went out to LA. He was followed everywhere and the guy that was giving him all the trouble was after him in Clearwater and after him in LA. In fact, in Clearwater, he was interviewing a man outdoors, nowhere near the part of town that is the scientologists and yet they showed up and interrupted the interview and threatened the reporter and make accusations about the person being interviewed. And they’d shove their camera in his face all the time telling him they were getting everything on tape. They would show up at his hotel and know where he was staying and what room and show up like at midnight and confront him in the lobby. And it just escalated and escalated. And I think what broke him was he finally got really pissed at their references to the holocaust and to people who are against them being the same as the Nazis, and he’d been terrorized by them for days and he just snapped. And then he immediately apologised. It’s on Youtube if ever feel like watching it. Just make sure it’s the long version and not the Sci’s version.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyI think you would be a good mom – take the time now to come to peace with your personal life and then when your are more settled emotionally, try again for the adoption to share yourself with a little one.
@Different Guest:
ReplySpot dog aka St. Bernard here is called Dragon. And can’t explain it but everyone says the name is perfect on him.
@harikari girl:I read Mike Farrell’s autobiography he was involved with the Cult Awareness Network which the Co$ bankrupted with lawsuits and gained the rights to the name. Anyway they called him and told him that Harry Morgan was dead, he was devastated of course, makes what he’s thinking is a condolence call and finds out Harry is alive and well. They’d call in the middle of the night, he finally started answering the phone something along the lines of L. Ron Hubbard was crazy.
ReplyDoes anybody here know much about that IUC Hostility board??
Reply@harikari girl:I’d say go for custody of him too, except I don’t think they are family dogs, they are one person dogs.
Reply@harikari girl:Not a clue. It’s someplace called female first, i think might be out of the UK.
Reply@Different Guest:
yeah, no, Dragon is definitely his dog. he live and breathes for him. which is fine with me as I’m allergic to him. Besides, I have my own dog and he blows Dragon away!
Reply@harikari girl:That doesn’t surprise. Mr. Spot was a real sweetheart but very much my next older brother’s dog, did not like it when he and younger brother would karate spar (they are both black belts). He was the “runt” of 13 puppies and weighed a mere 150# in his prime.
Reply@ladybert62:
Crikey ladybert62, the tales we hear on this board! There can’t be a thing that one or us haven’t gone through in our lives. I could tell you a soap opera style story (like the plot is so unbelievable it could only be made up) about something along those lines. It was quite ridiculous. I won’t go into it though because the walls have ears but I think there are a lot of gay people who are in heterosexual relationships even in their 50’s and 60’s. Its not uncommon at all. Must have been horrendous for you though. That’s why I hate closeted types, they hurt the people they are staying in the closet with and don’t seem to understand why it is so wrong. People!
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyThey are ruthless! Since I could not find Ian’s book on Kindle, I did settle for “Hollywood: Satanism, Scientology and Suicide” by Jerry Staton. Has anyone read that book? And if so, what did you think? I am going to start it this weekend.
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
ReplyIt was extremely painful for me and as I said from my Catholic good girl background (though dirt poor), it was something I had never encountered before. I never told my family the truth (they blamed me for years and I reached the point where I didn’t care what they thought and still dont) as it was none of their business in my opinon. It was between him and me. But yes, secrets in a marriage are not good!(Remember all those posts I made about Scorpios and their secrets – well, Scorpio hubby #1 had his share of secrets.) I can laugh about it now, but it took me a good long time.
@ladybert62:Haven’t read it, also I’m not sure it’s a separate book about Scientology, Ian did write Hollywood Undercover:Revealing the Sordid Secrets of Tinseltown, which has a segment on the Co$.
Reply@Different Guest:
Yes, I know it’s on female first. And I know that it’s a board complaining about this site and people on it, but it’s really out of control. I’d never been over there but then I clicked on forum and then on Angie and Brad and up came IUC Hostility and I couldn’t believe it – there’s been over 10,000 views and over 1,000 posts. There are 77 pages of comments written mainly about Keane and bullies on this board. I never bother to read it, someone had mentioned here that they were ranking on Keane. But today, I went over there and clicked on the most recent page and they claimed that they would be really pissed off if I was really SZ. And then they would’ve have been duped. And then they said that Keane, Kate, SZ and HG are no longer posting at IUC. Anyway, it just shocked me because it seems rather full of venom and paranoia.
Reply@ladybert62:You and Angela Lansbury, her first husband was gay and she didn’t have a clue. She did have a very successful second marriage.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyAH that could be as I did see that one! Might go back and get that one also since I am into enlightment mode this weekend.
@harikari girl:well the internet does tend to attract the loons.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
Keane,
I’m glad you’re back. I made the stupid mistake of going over to ff today and clicked on the last page and I actually felt shaky after reading their posts. First off they’re saying that you stole somebody’s identity and their bio. Well, I don’t believe that and that wouldn’t be any of my business anyways. But then they started saying that someone needs to get in touch with this Alexis girl and let her know that you’re basically doing identity theft. They were all so poisonous about it.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyI did not know about about Ms. Langsbury – her and I come from different generations than you ladies – and as Keane said, the closet has caused much pain to many people. It is better to be in the open about it as they are today – at least you have some idea of what is going on!
@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:My favorite closet comment came from a minister I know. The United Church of Christ (of which Barack Obama was a member) has ordained the openly gay since 1984. Anyway, her crack about the last church she served was “I was in the closet with the door open and the light on.” Not a single parishioner ever asked her about her sexuality.
Reply@harikari girl:
ReplyJust ignore them and stick with us! It seems that generally we are nicer and easier to get along with than they are!
@ladybert62:knock wood, this place is really very refreshing for the lack of loons and the ones that do come around are usually pretty easy to spot.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
Anyway, on the last page of posts, they had this which I really found to be disturbing:
by Guest on Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:12 pm
Guest wrote:
DebFrmHell-I’m with you that post sounds so much like Keane. I’m starting to wonder if the only reason why SZ and Keane didn’t get along in the first place is because they are so much alike. SZ seems to have changed alot her personality continues to baffle me.
I also wondered why she tried so hard to get Keane to like her. I don’t agree with how she was treated on IUC by Keane. I couldn’t believe Keane was allowed to treat her like that. But, SZ wouldn’t leave her alone. It would be dropped then she would ignore everyone else first just to start a conversation with Keane and Kate. I can’t stand Keane’s personality. Why would SZ try to befriend someone she initially, didn’t like how she bullied others. I never got that. Even when they had a few good exchanges the bullying of others continued. So that was ok with SZ as long as Keane and Kate let her in the clique. I was offened when you initially told us the thread was getting immature but, now I see why. I have been posting on the other stories I like. But, something isn’t adding up about Keane,SZ,Kate and HG is no longer posting over there either. I think SZ is Harkari Girl notice Keane,PattyAnne and Kate liked her. SZ and Hakari Girl live in the same neighborhood , both in the industry,both seem to have multiple personalities. Initially , when SZ and Hakari both posted they took the stance that they were offended by, the stories and the Angie bashing. But, notice as both started getting along with the clique they didn’t seem to care about any of what they claim to dislike. SZ has even admitted she asked a pyshic about Keane. Something ain’t addin up either.
It would p i s s me to find out that SZ was posting as someone else as well, Keane or HG for example. Like we may have been duped. It will be interesting to see what SZ has to say about this. That said, you could be a s h i t stirring the pot along with your accomplice just to tear up this thread. It is obviously one of the more popular threads and I think there are several reasons why people would like it to die. People = IUC and FF regulars.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyThat they are! As soon as my “mental ignore” button starts flashing, I go – oh yeah, “its one of them” – just turn the other cheek, read on and talk to the others! Ha ha
@harikari girl:Not very bright either. Don’t people realize that how you communicate online is just as unique as they way one speaks? I’ve been at other sites where posters are banned and return under new screen names and they can’t grasp that they are being identified by either what or how they post.
Reply@ladybert62:I will read the first sentence of a screen name I don’t recognize. If they are a loon I ignore from that point out.
ReplyBTW, SZ responded confirming that she was not Keane. But even after someone saying you said you’re not Keane but you never said you whether or not you were Harikari Gil, SZ chose to not comment on not being me.
I speed read through some other stuff and I’ve got to tell you, there is an atmosphere of real maliciousness there. A number of these people used to be on this board and they left to start a thread about hostility over here and they’ve managed to accrue 77 pages of hating on each other, hating on Keane, hating on Kate, hating on IUC and then hating on each other. I get that it’s just the net but it scares me. In fact, that’s why after reading this board before starting to post, after having seen that e-mail accounts had been hacked into, I took very special precautions. Using a friend’s extra laptop, not mine and using one of their e-mail addresses (they have 5 and gave me 2 to pick out of). And I thought well maybe you’re being a little bit paranoid, but after what I’m seeing, I don’t know..
Reply@harikari girl:whats required is something in the box …@….com you fill in the blanks anyway you want to.
Reply@Different Guest:such as harikari@noI’mnotsz.com
Reply@Different Guest:oops I don’t think you can use the apostrophe
ReplyOh, and they also said there was something off about me because (get this) Keane didn’t attack me even when I was a newcomer. And that because she was polite to me that meant something was wrong in Denmark..
Oh, and SZ and myself are the same person. They state we live in the same neighborhood – not true. When SZ thought I’d given away my neighborhood she said she knew it very well because she was only one canyon over – one canyon over makes a hell of a difference in regard to which neighborhood you’re in. Also, SZ is supposedly in radio – I don’t even the name of a single DJ -I’ve got the iPod in the car stereo. And I’m in film! And because SZ has a multiple personality (according to above post) so do I.
I’m sorry to vent, but it just really freaked me out. It feels like you’re putting your hand in a tank full of piranhas.
Reply@harikari girl:tankful of piranhas, I like that. Obvious they don’t know L.A. topography, somewhat one topic, I didn’t realize David Carradine lived in Tuna Canyon, used to go there to hike.
Reply@Different Guest:
ReplyOh so you mean that you could put in a fictional e-mail address? I did not know that.
@Different Guest:
ReplyI have no idea where Tuna Canyon is. Is it more over by Malibu Canyon or what?
@harikari girl:yes, sweet isn’t it, thank you ian
Reply@harikari girl:Yes, I’m trying to think whether or not it’s beyond or before. Is it Tuna Canyon the one that goes from PCH to the Valley? or is that Malibu? It’s been almost 20 years since I’ve driven it.
Reply@Different Guest:I think it’s between the termination of Sunset Blvd and Malibu.
ReplyAh, I never heard of that canyon but then I never go to Malibu – I hate Malibu for some unbeknownst reason.
Reply@harikari girl:If you love architecture there is one place you have to go, the Adams House at Malibu Lagoon State Park it is incredible, it’s the same family that started the Malibu pottery in the ’30s the tiling is incredible.
Reply@harikari girl:
Yes these people are really batshit, they came over here to post that too. Good God its hilarious! They think only one person in the history of time could have ever gone to Oxford and trained as an actor and dancer, it is one of the funniset things I have ever heard! They asked me if I had trained with her because we both went to the same college, do these people have no brains?! There are hundreds of thousands of people that have gone through the place over the years. There are 10,000 people there at any one time. There were many, many other people who acted and danced while I was there, its a pretty common extra-curricular actiivity! And furthermore, I did not actually do my training at Oxford, it was primarily when I was at school! But let them write to her, I’m sure it will amuse her. I’m sure she thinks she is the one and only person who ever went to Oxford and acts and dances, ha ha! I feel for these people, I had no concept that anyone could be this stupid. I guess they were googling me to try to find out my identity. Losers!
Reply@harikari girl:
Yes, that has been pointed out to me, I don’t read over there or care what they think/say. They are all batshit. Apparently they are spending hours pondering on why Kate and I are now e-mailing each other privately. They apparently find this peculiar because they assume we either know each other because we both work for Ian or are the same person or are Ian or etc etc. That is funny though that they now think that SZ is me or you, or I am you, or God how many other combinations there are out there that they haven’t previously thought of! Let them have their fun. I just feel sorry for them that they are wasting so much of their life concocting preposterous conspiracy theories about something that isn’t even worth making up a conspiracy about! If you’re going to make one up, might as well do it on something that actually matters like 9/11 or something!
But I do agree with them that SZ’s personality was beyond weird. Her first post was directed at me as if I ran the blog, she specifically asked me to give my opinion on her theory on Ange when she could have just thrown it out there to everyone, she attacked Ian saying his posts weren’t good enough to satisfy regs like Kate and I when she’d been posting for a week and Kate had been away in that time and hardly posted, she said to Nicole that she wished her and I could get on after reading here for about a week, and then wrote me a very long post trying to convince me she was who she said she was when she could have just said well I don’t care if you don’t believe me, this is not your blog etc. That’s why I was always so suspicious of her. I’ve never seen anyone behave like that on a blog in my life. If you have a falling out with someone, you just ignore them and talk to the people you do get on with. Then when she left she made a point to trash me as much as possible on her way out and then went over to FF to do it as much as possible when she had posted here for all of 3 weeks. Is this really that important to her life? She says she’s had this amazing career, pioneering female rock DJ in the 70’s, worked on the very first transmitted programmes of Entertainment Tonight, worked in publishing, saved someone’s life on her radio show, nearly went blind and just got her sight back and she cares that much about 3 weeks of posting on a gossip blog where someone didn’t believe what she was saying? She also thinks Ian is a journo of “primarily muckraking content”, so why come here in the first place? Plus she is old enough to be my mother, is this the way a 58 year old woman would behave? She was beyond odd which is why I thought she must be a fake. Whoever she is I do feel sorry for her because it seems like a few weeks commenting on a gossip blog is the most important thing to have happened in her recent life. And now she is suspected of being me! Its not going too well for her all in all is it!
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
I know exactly what you mean. I know 3 different people who went to RADA. But as different as they are, they all came out with the same training. They all went through the exact same things to get into the school to begin with, and they all did some sort of stage work after finishing school. And yet it would be preposterous to allege that one of them was pretending to be the other, to have stolen an identity. And all just based on certain similarities after going through the same training, school and shared interests???
But the above reason is why I find this whole conspiracy idea over at FF to be very disturbing. What sort of logic is it to say that there’s something weird about you and something suspicious about me because you have not verbally assaulted me and because you’ve courteous? It’s whacko and sometimes whakos really freak me out.
You know Helen Mirren (on being asked about why she requested male rather than female journalists to interview her) said: …
“I prefer male journalists because there’s a streak of female journalism – the bitches – who are mean-spirited and nasty because you are another woman and want to make you feel crap. It’s very upsetting. I’m more careful when I’m being interviewed by a woman because, from experience as well as reading articles about other women, I know there is a little stiletto knife hidden behind the back.”
It appears that ’stiletto knife’ is alive and thriving at FF and it certainly isn’t hard to see who it’s being aimed at.
Reply@Keane Cyber Queen Supreme:
Yes, I made the mistake of saying that there was something that was strange to me about SZ although I made it clear that I didn’t know what it was or why I thought – it was a very mild remark on my part, yet rather ignore me or do what I would have done which is to just simply ask why, she instead chose to attack me. It went straight from a friendly “hey we’re probably neighbours” to “you’ve just told everyone exactly where you live, I know, I drive right by there all the time”. Of course I didn’t live where she said I did. And I was rather amazed that somebody who lives in LA would jump to such a weak conclusion so adamantly because one happened to be at a certain public place on one particular occasion. Make me wonder if she would have said “Aha, you live at Whole Foods on Santa Monica and you just let everyone know exactly where you live by telling them you shop for produce there!” It’s just off – there’s no logic to it and yes, it’s even weirder because if that’s her age then she’s old enough to be my mother too.
Well, at least it established one thing for me: I am me and you are definitely you and I’m pretty sure Kate is Kate. Maybe I should thank SZ for helping me process these pearls of wisdom…
Reply@harikari girl:
I’m with you as far as finding the IUC Hating very disturbing. Keane laughs it off, but it’s a bit too whacko for my comfort level. It’s an awful lot of thought and effort concentrated on anonymous posters! Good grief. I’m with Keane. If you’re going to make things up or obsess, do it about something that matters!
Hi, by the way. I’ve been really hit and miss lately, and keep really ODD hours … and haven’t had much to comment on lately. But I’ve been around awhile and have never had the pleasure of saying HELLO to you. So, hello.
And sorry to hear about the stink attack you and your dog went through. We don’t have skunks, but we do have moose and bear!
Reply@Togi:
I’m a full blown insomniac (I usually run on a 72 hour rotation) so I totally get the ODD hours. And Hi, it’s nice to meet you too. So you read about the Skunk??? Yeah, I’ve now decided that’s one of the worst things one can go through. Someone could call me a c*nt over at FF and I would still pray that they never have the misfortune to be sprayed! I think for dog owners it probably falls right under having your dog run over on the list of possible nightmares!!!
As for the IUC hating, it actually shakes me up. I’ve never done discussion boards before – it’s virgin territory for me. It just seems like there’s this undertone of real Hate. The bitching, the venting, the feeling anger at some offense, whether real or imagined – that seems perfectly natural given the definition of the thread. And I don’t believe everyone over there is like that – I only read 2 pages, but I’m sure that a number of those people don’t mean real harm by discussing how they feel. I bet if I went through all 78 pages, I’d probably find someone that I thought was being completely objective. But there is that tiny percentage where it feels like real, tangible hate. It makes me think of the lines “When one woman strikes at the heart of another, she seldom misses and the wound is invariably fatal.” One doesn’t have to take it literally to understand the sentiment.
Reply@harikari girl:
It’s cool, what none of these people seem to understand is that the point of Ian having this blog is to get hits and they are giving him that and creating even more by endlessly discussing the site at length on another board. It’s attracting more people to a place they claim to abhor than it is putting people off. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter to Ian what people think/say about the blog as long as he is getting hits. Controversy is the name of the gossip game so more more controversy about the identity of posters just helps the site even more. If they are all happy and willing to help Ian in his business then that really is their prerogative. If they hate what he is doing so much then the best thing they could do is ignore the site and talk about something else. The subtlety of this eludes them though and they think by working themselves up into a frenzy then the answer to the conspiracy will be revealed, the blog will be pulled down and we’ll all go home and cry into our soup. If the blog were to end however, it would not happen that way at all.
What I also find hilarious about conspiracy theories though is that people get one idea into their heads but dont consider it could be applied in an alternative way. For example, while people are convinced Kate and I are being paid to post here, it never occurs to them that people may be being paid to post somewhere else. Kate, I and this site are the onlyever possible suspects. This is not the only site that has benefitted from a gain in hits from what has gone on here. I wonder whether that ever occurs to them? Anyhoo, it is for them to decide which conspiracy theory they prefer and to choose one. So far they have thought Kate and I are being paid, are each other, are Ian, are SZ and are now also you. There are still a few more variables to go through however, I wonder what else they can come up with.
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