IUC Exclusive: David Carradine Murdered by Ex Lover, Hollywood Friend Says
Was it autoerotic asphyxiation or murder? 
A Hollywood friend of late actor David Carradine claims he thinks the actor was murdered. “David was a player and had women all over the world,” the source said. “I think he was set up by a disgruntled lover or ex wife. David made many enemies, most of them being the women in his life. One of his ex wives (Carradine was married five times) once told me she wouldn’t have peace until David was ’six feet under’. David was definitely murdered.” Developing…
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- Tags: David Carradine
It doesn’t sound like he was murdered with what I’ve heard so far. Don’t know but I do hope the truth comes out.
ReplyNo sorry dont buy that….. sexual act gone wrong IMO. Did you see where his ex-wife said in divorce proceeding that one of the reasons was ‘dangerous sex acts”, sorry Kung-Fu liked it kinky – rest in peace grasshopper!
ReplyI had always assumed he was murdered by a hooker. The idea that he was set up by someone who hated him is plausible because now they’re saying he was wearing a wig and had lingerie in the room and this just sounds like they’re trying to make it look as damaging and embarrassing to David as possible. I never got the “Good Guy” vibe from him but I don’t really know anything about him other than that he was a recovered alcoholic. I’m very interested to see what stories are going to surface.
ReplyKill Bill III
ReplyI don’t believe David Carradine was murdered; nor do i believe it was suicide. It was a sex act gone wrong, horribly wrong imo. As someone said earlier, it was listed in his divorce papers for one previous wife ( he had five ex wives) that he was into dangerous sexual acts, and a claim of long term incest that he refused treatment for. As those are in public records and anyone can read them, i have no problem with posting it here. I do think he was very “screwed up” in his life though. Rest in peace Kung Fu master…..
ReplyWhy do you can update this but not anything about the subject where everyone is waiting for ……
ReplyThis is a non-story. You’re basically reporting on someone’s pure speculation. Yawn.
Reply@Patty Anne:
Hey Patty Anne, how are you doing chick? Hope everything is well with you. Just wanted to let you know that I’ll be thinking of you next week and sending you lots of good thoughts and wishes for a speedy recovery. I just wanted to say its been great chatting to you over the past few weeks/months and I’ve much enjoyed meeting you (in a cyber way) and appreciate your straight down the line approach. Please don’t let any negativity going on here affect your life in the “real” world in any way. This is supposed to be fun after all, not WWIII! At the end of the day I have realised there is no real point in engaging with these people because they’re going to think what they want to think no matter what you say. There is no point wasting your breath on them. The theories that people have come up with regarding this site are ludicrous in the extreme – that I am Ian, that I work for Ian, that Kate and I are the same person, that Kate works for Ian etc – and I don’t think there is a lot of reasoning with people that want to think those things. I think we have a few hurdles at the moment to get over with regard to this site, we need some more control over things with regard to abusive content and people making up stuff and trying to convice people of it which hopefully Ian can get to the bottom of. At the end of the day if people want to talk about us on other sites they will, it seems like they don’t have a whole lot else to talk about. I don’t care about these sites, don’t read them or care what people think on them. If people have an issue with me they should say it to my face as I would them, running to other blogs to discuss it is just cowardly. I don’t think there is much to say about things other than that, but just for your benefit, I just wanted to say don’t let the bastards get you down! On with the show my friends!
ReplyBut how does one bind their own hands behind their back and then expect to free themselves from suspension (hanging from the neck)? unless his feet were on something. I think it was planned this way because his past lovers knew that he liked hanging himself so it wouldn’t seem suspicious.
Reply@jeannie:
ReplyThank you! That’s what I was wondering. It doesn’t seem physically possible to do that to yourself….and merely an aside….not fun either!
@jeannie:
Tis true, you’re maybe right about the prostitute/hooker, sex act could have geon wrong and she(he) whoever (its thailand remember) could have done a runner.
I still dont see why it would be murder, he was 72 years old, how much of a danger can he be, also surely someone would have killed him off by now – there were 5 wives I hear.
ReplyJMO
@jeannie:
The hands behind the back is really the thing that has me stumped. Maybe it was an autoerotic asphyxiation that ended in an accidental death. But the hands being tied is, I believe, what has a number of people suspicious – including his own family and a forensic pathologist of the highest caliber – Dr. Baden.
I do hope for Carradine’s sake that it was an autoerotic asphyxiatian gone wrong. For fetishists, it’s the closest you can get to dying well having sex – that wouldn’t be the worst way to go…
ReplyThanks Keane. I, your Alter Ego as some claim of me, emailed IAN this morning asking for an Ignore Button which will solve the problems of the mass attack of the Team FF. I reaslize that it’s not worth giving up my good times here with so many truly kind, respectful, and intelligent posters, so i’m not leaving until i go in the hosp. for surgery in about a week or so. And it’s true, it’s only when we respond to their mass attacks upon us that it continues…we need to choose to ignore them with or without an Ignore Button. Consider the source as they say, any group who will go to two blog sites, and put a topic on one of the sites named IU Hostility, and then post insults, name calling, and accusations against the very people they treat as friends when they post here, sometimes simutaneously…isn’t worth the breath it takes to reply…..i’m finished trying to make them understand life is too short for Kindergarted Clique In-Fighting for excitement…..my time is more important to me than to waste it on hopeless causes…. Good to see you Keane….@Keane:
Reply@Vittoria:
ReplyI don’t think that self bondage is that out of the “norm” for this kind of scene (BDSM-AEA) in fact it is part of the scene. Just a guess but there was probably a kind of garrote that was involved and other stuff. They did note a type of ligature at the genitals. Apparently people who do this (AEA) frequently have devised a sort of “safety” device, which as we know, frequently fails. I do not believe he was murdered although with his past it would not surprise me that much. Actors are just that. He was clearly not a man of such enlightenment in the real world-he succumbed to his worldly desires as many do.
IMO David Carradine had to have had a prostitute, or g/f, b/f with him at the time the autoerotic sex act went wrong. He had a rope around his neck as reported, hands tied behind his back, genetals tied with black shoe string…good heavens! How could that improve the sec act??? Isn’ t that nearly what Angie says she needs? Someone who can “Hold Me Down”? Ut Oh! I did some research on autoerotic sex acts, and it says they usually keep a chair or stool nearby so they can relieve the pressure around their throat in time…so…if David did this, he would not have tied his hands and not had a foot stool or chair nearby….that makes for a second person in the room. Officials there have claimed to have proof that there was no other person in the room…..i wonder how they know this with certainty?
Reply@Patty Anne:
Yep life really is too short for it all. I don’t know much about FF but all it has ever seemed to be to me is a place where wild conspiracy theories abound. It doesn’t surprise me at all that they then develop wild conspiracy theories about this site also. I’m not going to bother reading there but thanks for the heads up yesterday. There are actually very few people posting on here that I consider genuine friends, everyone else I just consider to be acquaintances who I may get to know better as time goes on. People unfortunately seem to think that the point of being here is to win an internet popularity contest but they couldn’t be wrong. I only care about being liked by people that I like and respect and above all know. It always amuses me how people think their opinion of me should count for anything when I don’t know them from Adam, or that I would automatically like them and respect their opinion. Plus for the most part we really are just words typed on a page to each other, its quite a bit different than knowing people in real life. Let’s all just take a chill pill and wait for some good new Brange stories to work their way out. I mean what would we do for entertainment if we didn’t have the dastardly pair to laugh at!
ReplyAnother thought on the David Carradine death scenario; If he indeed died while performing autoerrotic sex, there would be possibly be physical evidence… i.e. traces of semen, or pre-ejaculation fluids. Persons murdered do not climax at the fear of death….lol. sorry it sounded strange to me who typed it
ReplyWhat they are saying now is that his hands weren’t tied behind his back but over his head, apparently common in AEA. Last night I was looking at his father’s imdb biography and there’s a quote “Never do anything you wouldn’t be caught dead doing.” Wonder if he knew about his son’s proclivities. I wouldn’t be surprised if the autopsy reveals he had a heart attack or stroke which led to his demise.
ReplyIn regards to how he could have possibly tied his own hands. I was wondering about that too, on another message board. Some one pointed out that it’s not that difficult. She also gave me some links of people who engage in this sort of activity. They kinda have “walk-through” tutorials explaining how it’s done. Not kidding. Some even had video clips. It wasn’t graphic and didn’t show nudity, but it was rather bizzare, but I can now see how one could do such a thing.
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyGlad to hear it Patty Anne – I was sorry to hear that you were going to stop posting but am delighted that you are staying and will post as able! My good thoughts also for your upcoming surgery.
Thank you dear@ladybert62:
ReplyI read last evening that his family in California have ordered another autopsy as soon as his body arrives. I hope for their sakes it does show a MI as cause of death. How horrible would it be to have A/E on a death certificate. He has quite a number of children also dosen’t he? I know he and Barbara Hershey had two sons, and she was just wife#1….@Different Guest:
ReplyVery Interesting read here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_en_mo/as_carradine_death
Pornthip Rojanasunand, director of Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science, said the circumstances suggested that Carradine may have died performing auto-erotic asphyxiation, which is said to result in a form of giddiness and euphoria — similar to alcohol or drug intoxication — that enhances the sexual experience.
“In some cases it can suggest murder, too. But sometimes when the victim is naked and in bondage, it can suggest that the victim is doing it to himself,” said Pornthip, who is considered the country’s top criminal forensics expert but who did not take part in the autopsy. “If you hang yourself by the neck, you don’t need so much pressure to kill yourself. Those who get highly sexually aroused tend to forget this fact.”
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyI believe the cause of death in these and similar circumstances is typically heart failure.
Hi to all you lovely ladies!
This is the third time I’m trying to leave a message today, so let’s hope it goes through.
I haven’t read all the posts from the weekend, but apparently I missed some drama…Miss. Patty Anne please don’t leave! I would miss your posts.
I really appreciate all you ladies (and guys if there are any here) and the points you have. Everyone has such an interesting story. Good thoughts to you Patty Anne and your surgery. I hope you feel better soon!
@Patty Anne:
Reply@Constant Gardner:
ReplyEdit, in other words, I think they list the actual physical cause of death and not what bone headed thing you were doing when you accidentally offed yourself:)
omg wtf DC was about to release a report on secret societies? Also hearing (on alternative radio) that if so could have been murder and to do so in a sexually humiliating way would fit other assassinations of whisteblowers. I have no idea what if any of this is true. Also, Michael K alluded to the secret societies thing in his post about it today. Whoa boy my ears are pricked up now!!!!
ReplyI for one appreciate your view on things as well. When people share ideas, sometimes the combination of thoughts, personal views enables us to find a clue we would have missed…
@backalleyknees:
ReplyAh! The games afoot! where did you find that, i’d be most interested in it, more information please?@Constant Gardner:
ReplyFrom, The Daily Fail:
Replyhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1191283/Separate-bedrooms-Brad-Angelina-sleeping-separate-houses.html
@harikari girl: It was his agent that is saying he is murdered and that his hands were tied behind his back. Just trying to muddy the waters so he isnt remembered in the same way as Michael Hutchence.\
\
According to TMZ his hands were tied above his head and that that could easily be tightened by putting his hands up then having his legs bent he can escape when ready but waited a couple of seconds too long.
Come on IAN! You are going to lose me if you keep posting what the agents what you to say:(
Replyhttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0605092carradine1.html
The divorce records that were placed in public records . Interesting
ReplyAuthor Claims David Carradine’s Father was Ordo Templi Orientis Member
http://www.infowars.com/author-claims-david-carradines-father-was-ordo-templi-orientis-member/
Very interesting.
Reply***BREAKING**********
David Carradine death sparks accusations of secret society murder
By Bart JacksonJune 8, 2009 10:26 AM
VANCOUVER — The death of Kung Fu star David Carradine has spurred a battle over conspiracy theories among his family, friends and even an ex-wife.
Celebrity lawyer Mark Geragos warns that secretive martial arts sects may have been behind the death, marking it as a murder.
“David was very interested in investigating and disclosing secret societies – absolutely,” Geragos said on CNN’s Larry King show. “What that means is connected to his interest in martial arts. And so there is a suspicion that if there was some foul play, that may be the first area they should look.”
The 72-year-old star of Kill Bill was found naked Thursday with a rope tied to his neck, wrists and genitals, prompting Thai police to say he died when some kinky masturbatory act went awry.
The fourth of Carradine’s five wives, Marina Anderson, thinks the cops are probably right, saying her former husband was often involved in “potentially deadly” kinky sexual encounters. “If he was involved in secret societies, it was a secret even I didn’t know about.”
Carradine’s manager, however, says the evidence points to murder. Photos of the star showed his hands were tied behind his back, says Chick Binder. He also notes there was a footprint on the bed that didn’t match the star’s print.
Members of Carradine’s family, already furious that a Bangkok newspaper printed a photo of the actor’s body hanging in his hotel room, have reported asked the FBI to investigate the death.
Confirmed: FBI Will Help In David Carradine Death Investigation
http://www.inquisitr.com/25492/confirmed-fbi-will-help-in-david-carradine-death-investigation/
Conspiracy theorists have had another martial arts star in their sights for a quarter century. Many think that actor Bruce Lee was targeted by Chinese triads. Lee died in 1973.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/David+Carradine+death+sparks+accusations+secret+society+murder/1674650/story.html
David Carradine Hanging Death Photo Sparks Second Person Involvement Speculation
June 8, 2009
Another David Carradine Death Photo Surfaces; Family Threatens Legal Action
The mystery surrounding actor David Carradine’s death in a Bangkok hotel room has garnered international media attention, and even moreso since the publication of the death photo in the tabloid Thai Rath. What seemed at first to be a simple case of suicide has become the
David Carradine Hanging Death Photo Sparks Second Person Involvement Speculation
Date: June 7, 2009 focus of intense scrutiny and speculation as more details become known and suicide seems to be only one of several ways the 72-year-old actor may have died. Various theories concerning murder and auto-erotic asphyxiation (these supported by statements of friends, according to the New York Daily News) have surfaced. Some are even beginning to believe, based primarily on the hanging photo and others taken of the scene of death, that David Carradine may not have been alone when he died.
Meanwhile, David Carradine’s family await’s the arrival of his body. An autopsy was performed in Thailand, results of which will not be released for three weeks (according to the Associated Press), before the body was allowed to leave the country. Carradine’s family understandably wants a second autopsy performed. USA Today reported that the family wants forensic pathologist Michael Baden for the second autopsy, hoping to determine whether or not there may have been a third person involved.
The death photo published by Thai Rath, which shows the actor hanging nude where he was found, is believed to be one of the photos taken by the forensics team that investigated the scene. David Carradine’s family, already reeling from not only the suddenness of Carradine’s death but also the swirling rumors and unflattering speculations about the manner of death, issued a statement through brother Keith Carradine that threatened legal action against those who printed or reprinted the death photo or any other photos of the actor’s death.
The family, like so many others interested in finding out what truly occurred in that Bangkok hotel room, is also insisting that the FBI become involved in the investigation, although Thai officials maintain that that is not necessary.
The reluctance to involve the FBI also feeds the fires of speculation.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1825633/david_carradine_hanging_death_photo.html?cat=49
ReplyWhy was he in Thailand?
Reply*********DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO SEE CARRADINE’S HANGING BODY!!!********
http://snardfarker.ning.com/profiles/blogs/david-carradine-hanging-photo
I don’t know all there is to know about auto-erotic sexual acts, but it seems to me judging by the death photo as published in their local tabloid that all he had to do was stand up to release the pressure…Apparently he used the clothes pole to wrap his ropes over, bound wrists, and neck, however he was more or less in kneeling position. It is also stated that he was wearing a dark wig, fishnet stockings, and had a red nighty on the bed…to each his/her own i say. RIP David.
ReplyI watch the Dr G Medical Examiner television program, and find forensics very interesting and educational.
He was making a movie, said he had three days filming left to go@ladybert62:
Reply***************Truth or fiction???
David Carradine
Ex-Wife of David Carradine Backs Up Bondage Claims
Posted on June 8th, 2009 12:27 PM
by Hilton Hater
Filed under: David Carradine
As the investigation into the death of David Carradine continues, more details are leaking out about the late actor.
Following news that he was found with various body parts tied together – fueling speculation that his death may have been the result of an auto-erotic experience gone awry – Carradine’s third ex-wife, Gail Jensen, has gone on record with claims that the actor would spend days planning elaborate sexual devices.
In an interview with Patricia Towle over the weekend, Jensen said:
“David was pretty strange. He would like to get tied up. He would tie himself up and I would walk in and see him and say ‘Oh my God, David, you got to be kidding me – and I would (turn around and) walk out. I would leave him to his own devices.”
Jensen added: “He liked to be tied up. And he could tie himself up… He spent days planning a different feature. He would go to a hardware store and buy the stuff.”
She and the actor divorced in 1997.
While this isn’t at the level of actually publishing Carradine’s death photo, it shows a lack of respect for the late actor for Jensen to publicly expound on his sexual appetites.
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/06/ex-wife-of-david-carradine-backs-up-bondage-claims/
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyHI Patty Anne – I also find forensics interesting. What channel (discovery, etc) is the Dr G Medical Examiner television program on? I have not heard of that one.
@Patty Anne:
ReplyOK! Thanks for the info. I know lots of kinky things as related to sex and children occur in Thailand that is why I was asking. Wonder what they will do re the unfinished movie?
@Patty Anne:
ReplyWhat is in the red bag on the bed? I thought he was nude. This looks like sort of a leopard print bodysuit? Is it just me? Is it supposed to be pixelated to cover the nudity? What was on the table?
*********BREAKING*********************
Thai police will know how Carradine died in one month
By Kittipong Soonprasert
Reuters
Monday, June 8, 2009; 1:28 PM
BANGKOK (Reuters) – Thai police said on Monday that the cause of U.S. actor David Carradine’s death in a Bangkok hotel room would not be known until they had the results of the autopsy and toxicology tests in a month’s time.
The police refused to give further details about their investigation into the 72-year-old actor’s mysterious death, amid intense media speculation about causes ranging from suicide to murder via accidental autoerotic asphyxiation.
“We are still investigating but we will not make any assumptions about his death until we have gathered all the facts,” the deputy Bangkok police chief, Lieutenant-General Amnoy Nimmino, told a news conference.
“We have to wait for the toxicology reports, the result of the autopsy and forensic evidence. We will know everything in one month.”
Carradine, the star of U.S. 1970s show “Kung Fu,” was filming the movie “Stretch” in the Thai capital when a maid found him dead in his suite at the plush Swissotel Nai Lert Park on June 4.
The police also refused to confirm the authenticity of a grainy photo published by a tabloid-style Thai newspaper, which said it was of Carradine’s naked, hanging body.
Carradine’s family said it was “profoundly disturbed” by the photo, printed on Saturday in the Thai Rath newspaper, and threatened legal action, the actor’s brother, Keith Carradine, said in a statement issued by lawyer Mark Geragos.
“The family wants it understood that … any persons, publications or media outlets will be fully prosecuted for invasion of privacy and causing severe emotional distress if the photos are published,” the statement said.
Thai Rath, the country’s top-selling newspaper, is known for its lively coverage of crime and celebrities. It did not give a source for the photograph and the face could not been seen.
“I cannot say anything about this photograph,” said Amnoy. “The media were not present at the crime scene and this picture was not leaked by the police.”
Initial police reports said the actor had committed suicide, but relatives insisted Carradine would not take his own life.
Thai police and media then speculated that accidental autoerotic asphyxiation was a possible cause of death.
The Thai coroner has said it could be several weeks before the results of the toxicology tests and autopsy are known.
Carradine’s family called on U.S. authorities on Saturday to help explain how he died, and a U.S. embassy official in Bangkok said the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) was discussing the case with Thai police.
Amnoy said the FBI was welcome to take part in the investigation, but only after Thai prosecutors had received a formal request from the U.S. government.
Carradine’s family has hired a forensics pathologist to examine the actor’s body, which was flown home to Los Angeles on Saturday.
(Additional reporting by Bernie Woodall in Los Angeles)
(Writing by Martin Petty; editing by Tim Pearce)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/08/AR2009060801980.html
Reply******************PHOTOS CLAIMED TO BE FAKE – READ WHY **** BREAKING NEWS ******************************
Thai Rath photos of Dead David Carradine fake – See here
June 9th, 2009 – 12:39 am ICT by John Le Fevre –
Threats by the family of dead Hollywood actor David Carradine to sue publications that republish photographs published by Thailand’s Thai Rath newspaper over the weekend amount to little more than bluster.
The photographs(scroll down), which have seen the Carradine clan have their lawyer publicly warn publications of lawsuits, appear to be nothing more than a fake at worst, or a re-enactment at best.
The photographs displayed by the Bangkok tabloid show a man with dark skin and black hair, naked and suspended by a rope tied around his wrists and attached to a clothes bar inside what appears to be a cheap closet. A bed is less than one meter away from the closet and the room has a wooden floor – all hardly the stuff of a suite in a prestigious hotel such as the Swissotel Nai Lert Park.
Police reports have said Carradine was found with a shoelace tied around his penis and a rope around his neck. An earlier claim that the dead actor’s hands were tied has been refuted by Thai police.
Senior Thai attorney general Sirasak Tiypan has said the FBI can observe the police investigation but must not try to interfere.
The FBI “cannot arrest any suspects or perform its own investigation, because that falls under the authority of the police where the crime was committed,” he said.
Police Colonel Somprasong Yenthaum, who is leading the probe, said he was, “confident we are working on the right track” and added that US embassy representatives had witnessed the examination of the hotel room.
Carradine was in the Thai capital to shoot a film called Stretch when he was found dead, naked and curled up inside the wardrobe with one end of a shoelace tied around his penis and the other end fastened around his neck, by a hotel housekeeper.
The director of Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS), Kunying Porntip, said he could have been be trying autoerotic asphyxiation to gain sexual pleasure and may have accidentally suffocated.
Carradine’s family have vigorously disputed claims he may have committed suicide and also rejected the kinky masturbation-sex angle.
The family has also employed high-profile forensics expert Dr. Michael Baden to perform an autopsy on the dead actor in the US.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/thai-rath-photos-of-dead-david-carradine-fake-see-here_100202481.html
ReplyPHOTOS COULD BE FAKE
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/thai-rath-photos-of-dead-david-carradine-fake-see-here_100202481.html
Reply@Constant Gardner:
Hi CG, it’s not a body suit…that is the discoloration of a dead body. All the blood settled in his lower extremeties…
IMO, I think he was playing bondage with a hooker, it went south, she took off, he’s found alone. End of story…
BTW….Patty Anne, what did I miss this weekend???? R u leaving the board???? What happened????
Reply@John:
ReplySo maybe she didn’t respect him. Maybe that is why she was an ex? Maybe sour grapes, maybe she was paid for the quotes, no way to know. People do messed up stuff. If a fraction of this article is true, that he was way into exotic bondage games, etc. then he knew fully well the risk he was taking and must have contemplated how it would play in the press if there were ever an accident. There is no law requiring that the dead be spoken of with respect. This is an excellent example of a man who was idolized and having had feet of clay all along. His characters bore little relation to his real life. I am still more inclined to think that this was sex play, alone, gone wrong although the conspiracy stuff is interesting.
@CC:
Replyomg have not been around dead bodies so didn’t know. ewwwwwww. death is not pretty to human bodies is it?
@Constant Gardner:
ReplyYeah, I heard that he’d never practiced Kung Fu or heard of it till he did his movies…
#####*******************THOSE PICS ARE FAKE###############***********
CHECK OUT PICS OF THE ACTUAL HOTEL ROOM. There is no comparison BETWEEN THAT AND THE PIC CLAIMING TO BE CARRADINE HANGING IN THIS HOTEL ROOM. This is a 5 star hotel that does not even remotely resemble the pic in the phto released in the Thai Paper. Believe nothing at this point. Wait for the investigation.
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/HOTEL+HOME/Gallery/Rooms/swiss-executive.htm
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
Reply@Constant Gardner:
ReplyRight?? Yeah, from all the true crime tv I watch I learned that the blood pools wherever the gravity takes it. So if you’re on your left side, all your blood pools and your left side would appeared bruised. And the body becomes discolored rather quickly. Doesn’t take long for a body to start decompossing (sp?). What an embarrassing way to die!
@Patty Anne:
THAT PHOTO IS A FAKE. NO WAY THAT PIC IS FROM A 5 STAR HOTEL, THAT PIC LOOKS LIKE IT CAME FROM SOME SLEEZY MOTEL, NOT A FIVE STAR HOTEL. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SIMILARITY TO THE PIC IN THE THAI MEDIA TO THAT OF THE ACTUAL HOTEL.
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
Reply@John:
ReplyYou’re right….BUT….devil’s advocate, here….what if he used the hotel in the “death photo” to take hookers to??? Maybe to be discreet?
Madonna will not be denied! It is being reported today on the website SFGATE.com (the site for the SF Chronicle) that Madonna is baby shopping in another country. It is Lesotho – which is supposedly a landlocked country favored by Prince Harry who does charity benefits to raise money for the many children there with AIDS. I dont know how to post the article but it is easy to find on the web. It also says that it looks like her appeal re the adoption of the little girl “Mery” is probably going to be denied due to Madonna’s lack of residency requirements. Thus, she has started looking in another country.
ReplyPHOTO IN THE THAI MEDIA IS FAKE
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
IT IS NOT CARRADINE, NOR THE 5 STAR HOTEL HE STAYED IN.
Reply@ladybert62:
ReplyOops – fat finger typing hits again! “Mery” should be “Mercy”
@CC:
THAT PHOTO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. THAT IS A FAKE PHOTO. IT IS NOT THE HOTEL CARRADINE STAYED AT, WAS FOUND AT. IT’S UNFORTUNATELY, A PIC OF SOMEONE ELSE THAT THE POLICE SHOULD BE INVESTIGATING. IT IS NOT CARRADINE. THAT IS NO 5 STAR HOTEL IN THAT PIC, IT IS SOME FLEA BITTEN JOINT, NOT SOMEWHERE CARRADINE WOULD STAY.
THE PHOTO IS FAKE.
WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO COME OUT
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
Replyhttp://www.tv.com/dr.-g-medical-examiner/show/28764/summary.html A & E channel Friday night at 9:00 p.m. EST. She is very detailed, explains her theories, how she comes to her conclusions, etc. It’s not for entertainment i feel as much as for education. I’ve discovered a lot about the human body i didn’t know before.@ladybert62:
ReplyThe different report’s i’ve read say that way a woman’s nightie on the bed…and that he was wearing black fishnet stockings and a dark wig….. I believe to each his/her own, but as the family is claiming death by unknown person(s), i find it interesting to read all the reports i find about the circumstances of his death. I am not making a judgement upon his sexual preferences…@Constant Gardner:
Reply@John:
ReplyDamage control.
@John:
Okay…calm down. The all caps seems like you’re yelling at us. Relax, dude.
ALL I was saying was that maybe….MAYBE…..he went with a hooker to a FLEA BAG motel to fuck and do kinky shit so that he wouldn’t embarrass himself by trasping through the lobby of a nice hotel with a Thai hooker….
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyOh goody – I get that channel. I will try to watch as I also find it fascinating how they figure out things re death etc. Thanks for the info!
@Patty Anne:
ReplyJust stay away from My Surgery .com before your back surg LOL
No, i’m not leaving . It was just a reaction to the increased attacks from another board. I’ve concluded to ignore their attacks should they continue. I will be offline for awhile soon though, as i’m having back surgery…but as Arnold sez, “Ah’ll Be Bach!”@CC:
Reply@John:
ReplyJohn, while you most certainly could be right, I am curious to know what makes you feel so certain?
@Patty Anne:
ReplyOuchy! Good luck with surgery, hon!!!
@Constant Gardner:
ReplyMe, too.
@John:
ReplyWe get the point. What makes you so certain about it?
@Constant Gardner:
ReplyI think he yelled at us and left the board…
There was a case of this quite a few years back concerning a British politician. He was found wearing stockings and suspenders and all that jazz – I think it might have been on the kitchen table – with an orange in his mouth. Seems like the dressing up in women’s clothing and auto-asphyxiation thing can go hand in hand. All I can say is I can’t imagine going to such a lot of effort just for a wank!
AND BTW PLEASE COME BACK KATE, ALL IS NOT LOST, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT ANYONE THINKS OF US HERE, WE CAN’T BE LIKED BY EVERYONE. WE WILL GET OVER THIS AND GET THINGS BACK ON TRACK HONEST. PLEASE DON’T TAKE IT SO MUCH TO HEART, YOU ARE WORTH TEN TIMES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HATING ON US. JUST TRY TO SHRUG IT OFF AND LET’S GET BACK ON WITH THE TASK IN HAND (AMUSING OURSELVES). THERE ARE SO MANY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE THAN THIS BS. DON’T LET THE IDIOTS GRIND YOU DOWN!
Reply@fresca:
ReplyI believe Mark Geragos, the tool who was hired to put the spin on this is also saying REDRUM. If you accidentally suicided yourself while wanking off, would your life insurance pay out? I would like to know the answer to that question. There is more of a reason to all of this spin than protecting DC’s image after death although that is certainly understandable. More than likely it is to protect the FRANCHISE and FUTURE EARNINGS.
@Keane:
ReplyHi ya Keane! I’ve missed about a week’s worth of dish!!! What happened? Did Kate and Patty Anne get knocked around a bit this past weekend??? Hope you’re doing well and you’re right…no need to pay any attention to the haters. Just remember the TONS of people on this board who do value yours and Kate’s opinions…
@CC:
First, Have you ever stayed in one of these hotels? I have and they do not by any stretch of the immagination look like what is coming out in the picture in the Thai Media. Could it be a staged photo made to look like what happened? Maybe.
Secondly, devils advocate or not, it was claimed Carradine was discovered at his hotel, not some other hotel. This pic does not look like it’s from a 5 star hotel, rather some cheap seedy hotel.
I posted in caps becuase people are believing things without getting all of the facts. I am in shock with what I am reading. What is to stop anyone from leaking any kind of absurd sordid photo and claiming it is Carradine?
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
Police in Thailand said Monday that they would welcome the FBI’s assistance in investigating the death of American actor David Carradine, but only as observers in the high-profile case. Carradine’s naked body was discovered last Thursday morning in his luxury suite at Bangkok’s Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel. Police initially suspected his death was a suicide, but have since said it may have been accidental suffocation or heart failure after revealing he was found with a rope tied around his wrist, neck and genitals.
Lawrence Kobilinsky, professor and chairman of the Department of Forensic Sciences at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, will be online Monday, June 8, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss how to differentiate between accident and suicide as manner of death, what can be determined by performing an autopsy and the issue of autoerotic asphyxiation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/06/08/DI2009060801798.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/06/08/DI2009060801798.html
The photographs displayed by the Bangkok tabloid show a man with black hair, naked and suspended by a rope tied around his wrists and attached to a clothes bar inside what appears to be a cheap closet. A bed is less than one meter away from the closet and the room has a wooden floor – all hardly the stuff of a suite in a prestigious hotel such as the Swissotel Nai Lert Park.
I have no idea how he died, accident, kinky sex gone wrong, or murder and will not speculate. I would imagine his family are sick and furious with what is being published. And it’s entirely possible his ex has an axe to grind. Additonally, all of this happened in another country, I’d like to hear US reports bofore jumping to any conclusions. Not to mention, the guy was in his 70’s. Why not wait and see what comes out from the reports from the FBI and autopsy reports here? His family must be sick and disgusted with everything right now.
ReplyJohn said on June 8th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@CC:
First, Have you ever stayed in one of these hotels? I have and they do not by any stretch of the immagination look like what is coming out in the picture in the Thai Media. Could it be a staged photo made to look like what happened? Maybe.
Secondly, devils advocate or not, it was claimed Carradine was discovered at his hotel, not some other hotel. This pic does not look like it’s from a 5 star hotel, rather some cheap seedy hotel.
I posted in caps becuase people are believing things without getting all of the facts. I am in shock with what I am reading. What is to stop anyone from leaking any kind of absurd sordid photo and claiming it is Carradine?
http://www.swissotel.com/EN/Destinations/Thailand/Swissotel+Nai+Lert+Park/Hotel%20Home/Gallery/Gallery
Police in Thailand said Monday that they would welcome the FBI’s assistance in investigating the death of American actor David Carradine, but only as observers in the high-profile case. Carradine’s naked body was discovered last Thursday morning in his luxury suite at Bangkok’s Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel. Police initially suspected his death was a suicide, but have since said it may have been accidental suffocation or heart failure after revealing he was found with a rope tied around his wrist, neck and genitals.
Lawrence Kobilinsky, professor and chairman of the Department of Forensic Sciences at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, will be online Monday, June 8, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss how to differentiate between accident and suicide as manner of death, what can be determined by performing an autopsy and the issue of autoerotic asphyxiation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/06/08/DI2009060801798.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/06/08/DI2009060801798.html
The photographs displayed by the Bangkok tabloid show a man with black hair, naked and suspended by a rope tied around his wrists and attached to a clothes bar inside what appears to be a cheap closet. A bed is less than one meter away from the closet and the room has a wooden floor – all hardly the stuff of a suite in a prestigious hotel such as the Swissotel Nai Lert Park.
I have no idea how he died, accident, kinky sex gone wrong, or murder and will not speculate. I would imagine his family are sick and furious with what is being published. And it’s entirely possible his ex has an axe to grind so is dishing some dirt on him. Maybe he didn’t choose his women wisely. Additonally, all of this happened in another country, I’d like to hear US reports bofore jumping to any conclusions. Not to mention, the guy was in his 70’s. Why not wait and see what comes out from the reports from the FBI and autopsy reports here? His family must be sick and disgusted with everything right now.
ReplyIf he was killed by a lover as Ian’s post suggests, who might that have been? If there was a 3rd party I am going with hooker and not assailant.
Reply@Constant Gardner:
Depends on the policy but I found this:
Auto-Erotic Death Really An Accident
If you die while partially strangling yourself during masturbation, can your widow collect on your accident insurance policy? Yes, said a federal court recently. The big deal here is that the Court recognized that autoerotic asphyxiation is neither suicide nor self-inflicted injury, because the intention is pleasure rather than harm.
Even more interesting is the court’s reference to four other federal trials that have ruled on deaths resulting from this sexual activity. It’s hard to know exactly how often people die from this, because the families of the deceased often sanitize the death scene before calling 911. The American Psychiatric Association estimates 250 deaths per year; law enforcement estimates go as high as 1,000 per year. Still, of course, a long way from drunk driving or firearms territory.
One could easily argue that if this insurance policy would have paid off on someone dying while skiing or rock climbing, it should pay off for death during sex. All involve a certain degree of risk.
By validating that some people do accidentally hang themselves in pursuit of pleasure, the Court makes it easier for society to see various S/M activities as sexual rather than violent. With millions of S/M practitioners around the country, this is important. As it is, there are already several people in American jails from cases involving either autoerotic asphyxiation or consensual S/M. The American courtroom still needs to catch up with the bedroom.
For more information about autoerotic asphyxiation, see Jay Wiseman’s article at http://www.members.aol.com/Oldrope/breath.htm.
Reply@CC:
ReplyDang that is interesting!- the issue never even occured to me. Studying the law is certainly interesting and to see how it changes througout history and cultures is fascintating. Lawyers can be an irritant and lawsuits an inconvenience but they do occasionally remedy injustices in life and that fact that the law can be flexible and change as human beings and their ideas change is intriguing.
@CC:
Oh good lord its all been kicking off like you would never believe, its been beyond playground type of stuff. People have been coming here specifically to attack and abuse me, Kate and now Patty Anne and it turns out that there is a thread on FF dedicated to bashing us, and apparently many of our regulars are part of that. I don’t know who they were as I have no interest in FF and don’t care about what people have to say on there or any other blog but apparently they were people who pretend to be our friends here and have then been sticking the knife in over there. Kate went and read through it and was pretty upset by it and all the attacks that have been made on her and other people so she’s taking a time out for the timebeing until we can get something sorted with regard to moderation I think. Unfortuantely people think it is perfectly legitimate for them to come here and attack us without any provocation but if we fight back or defend each other we are automatically bullies, especially me. Its all too school playground for words and the people involved seriously need to get a life if they have nothing better to do than bash us. There was also some idiot claiming they knew me in real life and they were going to post on my wall on a social networkng site which was out of control. I don’t know what will happen now really, whether Ian has the funds to get a moderator for the site or not. The rate at which its growing it really needs one. But I think we’re all trying to adopt the strategy of ignoring the trolls now, there is no point in engaging with them in any way. Hopefully this will help to calm things down and we can continue to enjoy the site for what it is supposed to be: fun and a meeting of minds. We shall see though!
Reply@ladybert62:
ReplyI agree. And now especially with all the new advancements in technology, it’s amazing how fast our world changes and how we have to keep up with it on various levels including legalities.
@CC:
ReplyOH.MY.GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Keane:
ReplyIt is all in fun, but I think people miss that and get TOO involved emotionally…you want to tell them to lighten the hell up!!!!
@Constant Gardner:
Hey CG, from what I understand even if it was an accidental death due to sexual misadventure, most policies would still pay double.
So now the 3rd and 4th wife are saying he was into kinky, dangerous sex acts?
I dont beleive in the secret society. I think that his manager is rivalling AJ for fax skills at this point.
Reply@Constant Gardner:
ReplyRight? So as it stands, you’re better off dying by doing something like DC did rather than something unkinky like snowboarding in order to get the pay out. Weird.
Oh or Mark Geragos. They are really trying to spin this. Wonder if John is the manager or the attorney;)
ReplyI have a question. It’s an honest one, but…how can one (male) masturbate with their hands tied above their heads? I mean, doesn’t it require the use of at least one hand? ( can hear the giggles now…lol)
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyNo, I’m with ya….I’m not sure how one would, uh….spank it with hands tied…unless he was doing that tantric shit…
Might be, i read Heather Graham and Sting are well into tantric…must be the in thing in HW@CC:
Reply@Keane:
ReplyI posted this on the other thread, but FF has since removed the link to IUC Hostiity, wonder why???
@Patty Anne:
ReplyGood question but I guess the whole hands tying is common. Idk I just dont get it. Any of it.
Lol…i don’t get it either, nor do i want to. I think most of the celebs get so jaded with life in general, with having so much at their finger tips, that they constantly seek out other methods of sensation….alcohol, drugs, sex , kinky sex…..then what is left to them? It’s sad really. Just look at Jolie….cutting with sex as a teen, beastiality rumours for years , orgies, she has no limits. I fear for those children being raised by an a woman with absolutely no moral code.@fresca:
ReplyI wonder who this “ex lover” is refering to in the topic….DC murdered by ex lover……? Any clues?
Reply@Patty Anne:
Replygo to google images and type in auto erotic asphyiation and you will see how it is done
Good Grief! Up to 1,000 deaths in the U.S. attributed to auto eratic asphyiation each year@Constant Gardner:
Reply@Patty Anne:
Yes and you probably saw how often it is under reported (families sanitize the death scene before calling 911)-who knew? I learned about it in a book called encyclopedia of unusual sex acts. Stuff in there I really could hardly fathom and I KNOW I am not a prude! You know, this case sort of reminds me of the Bob Crane murder. What do you ladies think?
PS I can’t get over thinking about your BS this week. Another thought or two:
If you are told you have to be in the brace anytime you are bearing weight then you will need to wear it in the shower. This sucks mightily. The way I got around that was by putting a plastic lawn chair in the shower, sitting down and then taking the brace off. After awhile you may even feel sort of vulnerable and unprotected OUT of the brace which we called the Iron Maiden. The other thing that helped was one of those toilet seats for old people that is elevated. It was a big help and you can go back to the big girl potty eventually:) You may go into neuro stepdown for a day after surgery. Can you say Morphine on demand pump? I knew you could, LOL.
Reply@Constant Gardner:
ReplyThat would be BS as in BACK SURGERY not bullshit!
@Keane:
ReplyJesus! I missed a lot this weekend and haven’t had time to sort through the other thread. That’s really upsetting. I hope Kate comes back. Glad you’re still here btw.
@Caribsmom:
Hm maybe someone complained. Didn’t they remove some other threads when someone posted “Death to the whore Jennifer” or something. I don’t know, maybe Ian got involved who knows. Or perhaps one of their mods thought it was out of control so deleted it. Who knows how these things work!
In other news I am currently watching Heidi and Spencer from The Hills on the US version of I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. Bizarre to see them on it, didn’t think they were that desperate yet! They are refusing to stay and kicking up a massive tantrum. It is hilarious! I wonder if they were paid just to show up and do that as a publicity stunt. I really can’t see Heidi doing all those trials or what would possibly be in it for them!
Reply@backalleyknees:
Yeah no worries, it’s happened now, it’s probably a good idea to find out what certain people really think of you anyway just so you don’t waste any time thinking that they’re a friend or whatever. I’m curious to know who it was but I guess probably the people who were involved won’t be back here. But if they do come back you know whatever, I’d rather they said what they had to say to my face so at least I could defend myself. At the end of the day I don’t assume that many people on here are actual “friends” anyway, only a very few. Most people are just cyber acquaintances who I only vaguely know. I guess we’ll see who the culprits were because they probably won’t come back! I don’t know, when the world is in the state that it is, who really gives a shit about all of this!
Reply@Keane:
ReplyOkay….my curiousity is piqued! Who was saying what on FF???? Which “friends” of ours on this site was bashing Kate and you???? I can’t find the thread on there; seems to have been deleted…
@CC:
ReplyIt wasn’t me! I have never posted anything on FF – and I even have trouble navigating it the couple of times I have been there trying to find something someone on here referenced.
@ladybert62:
ReplyHa!!! Me neither! I can not figure it out either…
@CC:
ReplyOh good, I am glad to hear you say that – I thought it was just me but I found the site difficult to use to find anything that was being discusssed here. So I just gave up and havent been back as I dont have that much time as I am usually sneaking in these reads/comments at work when I should really be working! And from what little I did see on FF, I certainly like Ian’s “reply to a poster method” easier to use and read than theirs!
Back to the topic of this post, if DC was murdered, does anyone have any ideas as to why? I dont know much about him (other than his role as “grasshopper” which I watched occasionally so very long ago) and I never saw the “Kill Bill” movies though my hubby did. So I probably agree with Patty Anne that it was a sexual mishap sadly gone wrong. Does anyone have any theories about why it would be a murder? (As usual, everything I say, think, do, write or desire about anyone, place, person, thing, or idea in the past, present or the future is just my warped opinion forever and ever amen.)
Reply@CC:
The only people who know are Patty Anne and Kate I think as they were the only ones who read it. I would be interested to know, it was certainly interesting to see what one commenter said about me. It wasn’t necessarily nasty stuff but it was totally inaccurate. She said that she thought I lurked on other sites and posted occasionally under the name “guest” but I never do and I have no idea how she could have come to such a conclusion. She also thought Kate could be on Ian’s payroll, which was baffling to me as I thought it was just the freaks and loons who thought that. She also said that I enjoyed my bitch reputation and the fact that people were discussing me on other boards which I think is just her misinterpretation of me based on what I’ve said. I don’t like it at all but I would not give anyone the satisfaction of thinking that and would rather laugh it off than get upset about it. She also thought that it was a big deal to me that someone working on behalf of AJ hacked my e-mail, but I’ve said repeatedly I don’t consider AJ more exciting than any other human being in the world. I’ve worked in a place where these sort of celebs were calling in all the time, they are just people, they don’t impress me at all! Just goes to show how few people really understand who you are from what you post on a blog. Anyway, it wasn’t too nice to read but its probably best to know where you really stand with people at the end of the day.
ReplyWell, they got their thread back up and it seems DebFmHell is reaming Kate and me over the coals again….i wonder why we are so important to her happiness?…Oh well, it’s her problem and none of mine
Replyhttp://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/iuc-hostility-t226877-240.html?sid=329fc90693bf438be2208e152d418509
@Keane:
ok, I read some of the other thread. Apparently I would fall into the category of a follower who wants to be popular and in with “the in-crowd”.
Do you know that I print out all your posts everyday and place them lovingly at my “Keane is an angel” shrine I erected on my mantle. The main attraction is a giant poster of Ian aka. YOU. I also bought an Oxford sweatshirt and stuffed it with straw and put some lipstick on it. I sing to you the essence of you every night…And because you are in charge of the boards I hope I fufilled my ass kissing quotient enough that you will let me continue to post. (All of this was said in jest btw, but I wanted to put out this disclaimer because god knows how someone is going to twist this response into I hate Keane and think she’s a horrible person)
And I thought it was priceless that SZ came back just to write you a little response.
Reply@Patty Anne:
I’m not going to look at it but who are the other regs commenting there?
Reply@backalleyknees:
Wow, were they saying that about you or just anyone who is friends with me? Have these people made it out of kindergarten yet?!
Reply@backalleyknees:
Replysorry about my snarky/non-sensical post. The whole situation is annoying.
@Keane:
ReplyThey just kept commenting on how certain people are so interested in being in the “in-crowd”. I wasn’t mentioned by name (yet), but the insinuation for all those who don’t jump on your ass when you make a statement was boiled down to us being sycophants etc. Keanaloonie 4 EVA!!!!!!
Keane, just go to this thread and read Kates response to them. No doubt that she was stabbed through the heart by people she believed to be friends…..
Replyhttp://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/iuc-hostility-t226877-195.html This url will take you to the page KateIU posted her response. I felt so sorry when i read her pain@Keane:
Oh yes, now that their thread is back up they have continued with their one pleasure in their otherwise empty, sad lives, bashing IU , IAN, Kate, Keane, and me, Keane’s Alter Ego…lmbooooo. It’s actually funny, reminds me reading it, of a kindergarten group kicking and screaming because recess is over. They are accusing me of getting all my ideas from them, and stealing posts…wow! Seems IAN has no original ideas either, he steals all his topics from FF. Good Grief…..they are simply and clearly working themselves into a frenzy to come in one mass attack…lmao@backalleyknees:
Reply@backalleyknees:
ReplyDang – that was FUNNY!
@Patty Anne:
ReplyI am not going to read them – I hope Kate comes back to us here.
I think she will in time. It was rather a shock to her. I can only assume from her post over there that she was in FF before she discovered this blog, and shared her time between them. Kate never was a paid poster, never posted with multiple names never engaged in fighting with anyone who did post here…..and she was hurt that her “friends” on that site would make such unfair, untrue accusations. I just don’t understand why anyone would jeopardize a friendship for a moment thrill being part of an agressive , hostile clique. Kate comes across to me as a lady…and a very nice, decent one at that, although they have accused me of being Kate as well as being Keane. I suppose to them i can’t just be me…a straight talking, logically thinking Irish woman….their loss….@ladybert62:
Reply@Patty Anne:
Hm I had a quick look but I couldn’t see too many people that I cared for, it was mainly SZ, Nicole (who is one of the few regulars here that I genuinely could not bear and am pleased to see the back of, she’s a hopeless dumbass), DebFrmHell and Z. AFM was there too but she was saying she left because of the blog rather than anything else. Is there anyone I missed? I couldn’t see Kate’s response either. It does make me think I must have been wrong about SZ though as a plant would surely not bother trying to build up a following elsewhere, but I still find her behaviour beyond strange. Well what can you do, I tried to deal with her fairly while never really trusting her but she reacted with venom and off she’s gone. She was a very strange kettle of fish. Anyway, is that the sum total of the “backlash”?!
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyPlagiarizer! Haha! God, they all sound so butt hurt. “I’m running to this website because they are sooooo mean”….eyeroll.
@ladybert62:
Replyawww, thanks! I’m glad it somewhat made sense…
I know, isn’t that a hoot? I have to wonder about their thought processes if that is the best DebFrmHell could accuse me of….why others were kind enough to call me Keane’s Alter Ego, and Kate’s other nickname….it’s all just tooooo funny when you consider the radical accusations. Oh! I nearly forgot the best one! IAN gets ALL his ideas from THEM@backalleyknees:
ReplyI think mostly they were people Kate had thought to be her friends. Mememe was one, SZ, Z, Canuck2, but not all were going along with the radical hysterics of DebFrmHell….i suppose she hates this site so much that she can’t stop talking about it/us.@Keane:
Reply@Patty Anne:
Well the only one I would miss or consider a friend was Canuck, that’s a shame if she has gone, did she say why? Mememe I don’t know from Adam, Z was sweet but didn’t contribute a whole lot to the conversation and SZ well, a very funny one is all I can say about that. What I did find funny though was that they were still reading here, depsite their hatred for the site! I guess they don’t mind adding to the hits on Ian’s site then! To be honest I don’t think they’re going to find much to talk about other than IUC and its stories over there because FF doesn’t actually post stories its just a forum. I don’t know, it doesn’t really matter in the great scheme of the world does it? Its such a storm in a teacup! The only other person I hope hasn’t decamped is the lovely Togi as I would certainly miss her, but I’m hoping if she had a problem with me she would say it to my face rather than just debunking in. Oh well, we shall see when people do or don’t come back!
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyCanuck was there? I didn’t see her name. That’s too bad, I liked her posts. She’s another who’s had an interesting life.
The thread literally disappeared just now while I was still reading it….man….I hate that. Kinda like when the electricity goes out the last 5 minutes of your favorite show!!!!!!
Reply@CC:
Weird, what on earth is going on with it, bizarre! Did you find out any interesting stuff, any names of people we would miss? I’m not too devastated by it so far, only Canuck if she was there.
ReplyThe name was Canuck2. I don’t know if it was the same one though, and not all were making horrid remarks…mostly it was DebFrmHell and SZ inciting the mass hysteria@backalleyknees:
ReplyMaybe it’s gone for good this time…i certainly hope so. There was no good to come from a Topic on another blog inciting fighting with another site. You notice none of us went to FF to bash, cuss, call names at any of them, yet it was perfectly fine for them to incite their group with their topic “IU Hostility” and then come here to abuse us. Very disgusting , ignorant, childish behaviour….i can only hope the blog moderators saw it for what it was and removed it….
ReplyI think you need to get a ribbon and tie that tin foil bonnet on more tightly Keansey.
ReplyWeren’t you banned from Dlisted, JJ and FF? Isn’t that why this is the only blog you can post at ????
Have you had your visit from the CIA, FBI or Bureaux of Tin Foil Hats?
Reply@Keane:
ReplyNope, was only on page 8 of 18 pages but at that time, only SZ and Debfrmhell were the familiar names that stood out to me. The others have signed in as guests or are using alternate sign in names…
You too are banned at FF…c’mon ladies. Tell the truth.
Reply@Patty Anne:
Yeah that was probably Canuck, well we’ll just see if she comes back. I know the dark nature of some of the stories lately may have put a few people off recently too, we’ll have to see if they come back. Yeah I wasn’t too bothered by it I have to say, it seemed to be mainly comprised of SZ, DebFrmHell and Nicole, the last of whom I wouldn’t piss on if she were on fire I’m sorry to say (and she is the only reg here I would say that about believe me!) and SZ who continues to fulfil the brief of very odd behaviour indeed. To write page after page of diatribe after posting here a matter of weeks just because someone questioned what she was saying (and i did really do it in the politest way I could manage) is just as odd as her desperate quest for acceptance from me and attempts to ingratiate herself with people and be “one of the crowd” as soon as humanly possible. I have never seen anyone behave like that on a blog before in my life. And as for me questioning her, I remember when I started posting on Dlisted there was one occasion where a group of people ganged up to attack me because I didn’t like what they were saying (calling Princess Beatrice a fat heiffer I believe it was) and it was very personal, offensive and bullying and put me off posting there for a while but eventually I went back and just avoided those posters. I certainly didn’t try to seek their approval or sway them to liking me even though they were very popular characters on the board. I don’t know, I’m still finding SZ very odd. A woman of her age to resort to absolutely slating people she has communicated with for a few weeks for pages and pages on end rather than just addressing the problem to the person concerned, well all I can say is if she is for real that is one very immature 58 year old. I don’t buy it, but that’s just me!
Reply@CC:
Yeah that’s all I saw to be honest, that and someone who said she was Nicole, AFM who said she left because she wasn’t into the stories and Z who cited my treatment of SZ. Z is sweet but she did come across as very trusting and naive. It doesn’t surprrise me that she would fall for something like that. Anyway, I can’t say I’m that bothered. Most of the good people are still here, and hopefully Canuck will come back. We just need a few stories to entice people back I think!
ReplyFirst, why in the world would a blogger repeatedly go to a site with so much hatred as their weapon?
Second, Sounds as if the haters are rejoicing at their “victory”; i.e. bloggers wanting to quit because of the attacks.
Stop going to FF, whatever that is. They want hits, and they sure are getting them. Remember, curiosity killed the cat. I know, it’s so obvious and yet so timeless!
Patty Anne; I’ll pray for the success of your surgery. But you have to be in a good mental state; and going to where the forces of evil congregate is not helpful. They are a powerful force. But love is even more powerful; and they panic if they learn someone is praying for them. JMO!
Today, there was a news blurb on a cable news station. ( glad you’re sitting down).
A young man of A/A descent allegedly raped and murdered a months old baby! Raped! Murdered!
What is becoming of American society?
This is beyond comprehension to some of us.It’s scary! (One almost expects divine retribution or intervention.)
Re: DC. I’m hoping for the best news possible in this degrading act of allegedly demented behavior. That is, if there could be such a conclusion in this sad situation.
ReplyMy prayers for him and his survivors.
@Keane:
I think people will return on their own. I may not always post, but I’m pretty religious about checking the site…
I’ll be honest…the rape story was a TOTAL and complete turn off for me. I really debated about returning to the site because of it…
But I really enjoy “talking” with you gals on the days that allow me the time to be here, so I guess I’ll stick it out!
ReplyI once worked in ER, and the things we saw! We never discussed it among ourselves. At least at several hospitals I worked. But the cases stayed in our memories.
ReplyI couldn’t get the links either. I was put off by the posters who come here attack. You know how I call everyone bitches and all. Anyway, I am just going to ignore and continue posting. I very much like conversing with all the regulars although I haven’t added much lately. Patty Anne, I thought it was strange that Deb came on here yesterday to explain Keanes email situation then try to befriend you. What’s the point. I think Z and SZ had a connection through music; they had similar tastes. Maybe that is why she left.
ReplyMany sites have an administrator who monitors the posts. If there is anything that they deem inappropriate, or in some cases, politically incorrect, they will not allow it.
That perplexes me about this site. Surely Ian, et al, can see that this damage must be controlled.
Reply@Keane:
ReplyLOLOL “she was a very strange kettle of fish”. OMG!!!!! I had an after eight mint in my mouth and cracked up so bad I choked!!!!!!
NOTE TO SELF: do not consume sweets, seeds or nuts when reading Keane or Patty Anne. may be hazardous to your own self….
ReplyOh boy. We got it all wrong. We should model ourselves after AJ. WTF. Namoi Wolf says AJ is the woman we all want to sleep with. Uh, okay. I guess if you want coots. What an idiot!
Replyhttp://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/06/08/angelina-jolie-covers-harpers-bazaar-july-2009/
Would be interesting to know if his door was locked from the INSIDE ! If yes, and he stayed 2nd floor or more, no way he had company. Besides, it has been confirmed on Fox news ( not that that means anything lol ) that indeed, there was red lingerie on the bed, he wore dark wig and was wearing body fishnet suit. IMO this could imply TV or CD play ( Transvestite, Crossdresser) engaged in masochistic play. IMO the secrete society hype, is just that : Smokescreen. Would make a blockbuster movie though !
Reply@justhelping:
ReplyIsn’t she supposed to be a feminist? Sorry, I don’t see what AJ is doing as a favor to the world’s females. Or think she’s amazing human because she was able to turn a PR mess into PR gold. That might be a gold star business move, but humanitarian/human/female? Give me an effing break.
I just saw that. The windows of the hotel looked like it would be difficult to climb out, so if it was locked on the inside looks like he may have been alone. The FBI can get involved; however, they really can just observe, not get fully involved. @Ms Agatha:
ReplySome feminist hugh? She wrote “The Beauty Myth.” Ha, she went after fashion and beauty industries saying they exploit women. Just like she is doing now.
Replyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wolf
@backalleyknees:
I”m a bit naive about fettishes’ my goodness, just picturing the Kung Fu master wearing a dark wig, black fish net stockings, and tied in a closet with shoestring around his genitals….nope…missionary is just fine with me
Reply@justhelping:
If he had the door locked from the inside, the maid would need to get master key to get in, she would have to call the MOD (Manager on duty) . Whatever happened, that part is on record, also if any fingerprints other than his are on rope, DNA and semen other than his anywhere on or near his body etc. etc. I am sure we will know soon. The Thais have a pretty good investigating police….
Reply@Patty Anne:
Hahaha….. you don’t know what you are missing….. lol just joking, bad joke I know, considering…
ReplyMy momma used to tell me not to do anything in the cover of dark that i would regret in the light of day…..
ReplyWith Angie enjoying being “held down” i bet she’s into more than just S&M…and i think Brad went with the thrill of finally being able to do whatever he had fantasized in his entire lifetime. And now it’s time to pay for it. Angie may not return his balls to him, and with such a teeny weenie, he’s in deep doo doo….imo. I do believe the talk that Brad is bi, possibly gay. Reports go way back to Merve Griffith being one of Brad’s partners when he was young and new in HW….imo, both the Brand have much to keep out of the light
Wink….lol I take the fifth@Ms Agatha:
Reply@Patty Anne:
Good ole Pitty Brad ….. never knew what hit him when he met the certified member of The Cutting Knives Club of HW ….. he probably got to play things he couldn’t even spell……… if he is gay/bi or not I have no clue…….. I do know however, a soggy weener has a lot of competition in HW …. and age matters never mind size ……. the future looks dark lol
Reply@Ms Agatha:
ReplyAre you Sugar Ray?
I cannot understand why people don’t think someone could have come and left his hotel room unnoticed?? Unless he was under survelliance, nobody really knows if a hooker/person visited that room.
Replyhahahahaha …. spilling my beer……. nope….. my name doesn.t start with a K…. but thanks for the compliment lol
Reply@jeannie:
How could a hooker leave a room, if the room was indeed LOCKED from the insie ( Bolt!) ….. you know the type they have in hotel rooms…… unless she is a jeannie, Jeannie ?
ReplyHey, nice post, very well written. You should blog more about this.
ReplyJust watched a celebrity news program….damn! I feel so sorry for Tori Spelling! Her mother has never met her one year old daughter, and accepted the RSVP to the baby’s first bd party only to no-show….she even accused Tori of killing her father Aaron Spelling, by not returning his calls….what a mother!!
Reply@Patty Anne:
IMO she makes the No 1 on the Mother Dearest list…… just to show too much money is bad for you lol
Reply@Ms Agatha:
ReplyAin’t That The Truth! How horrible can a person be? Seems from the books they’ve written and what i see on the Tori and Dean in Hollywood tv show, her mother has been envious of her daughter Tori’s entire life! She shows extreme favoritism to Randy, Tori’s brother, and for her to say Tori caused her father’s death?…ARghhhh! I could put my hands on her and squeeeeeeeze
Yano, that makes me wonder what sort of Mommy Dearest Angie will be when the kids are older? Can you just see an aging Angelina Jolie with two beautiful , blond daughters? She’s going to go bat-shit ! She so disfavors Shiloh as it is….how horrible. Every child should be wanted, and loved for themselves…
Reply@Patty Anne:
Wait and see…. the day will come and they make a movie, featuring the Spelling family saga… with Tori playing her mother …… didn’t the Garland’s do it too ?
Reply@Patty Anne:
No way Shi is staying any day longer than her 16TH birthday …… that girl is probably going to live with her father – whoever that may be – long time before that !
ReplyWait – forgot – we got 2 (two) beautiful blondes …… ahhhhhhh ….. so far lol
Reply@jeannie: From the reports I read, there were security cameras outside his room and the police were said to be studying them.
Replyhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1826031/david_carradine_death_photo_points.html
ReplyGood report on David Carradine’s death….full of details…
Although the family was understandably “profoundly disturbed” by the publication of the horrific hanging photo of their family member, the death photo has led many, not just the Thai authorities investigating the case, to believe that not only was David Carradine involved in a sex game at the time of his death but that he may have also had at least one partner
Reply@Patty Anne:
Thanks for the link. I think it is safe to assume that suicide can be ruled out. This is most important to the family in respect to claiming any life insurance policies. I think we will know soon what happened. I lean to think that he was alone. There was also a rather big head shot of him placed against the head post of the bed, he would have directly looked at while in the closet. Seems, he liked himself a lot.
ReplyAJ is on the July cover of July’s Harper’s Bazaar – No interview inside – but huge PR spin
Reply@Ms Agatha:
ReplyNo interview but an article written by feminist author Naomi Wolf. Ugh, the article is sickening. The article is why all women “desire” Angelina Jolie. Wolf believes that women both identify with her and desire her. What a load of sh*t. I for one do not even remotely identify with her nor do i desire her. As a matter of fact I wouldn’t touch her with a 10 foot pole. i do not think she is attractive what so ever. She looks dirty to me. And i don’t mean dirty in a good way….Check out snippets of the article
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20283824,00.html
@Patty Anne:
ReplyProof that money can’t buy you class
@TobyKat:
”And i don’t mean dirty in a good way” … THAT is funny…lol
Women desire her ? Maybe Ms Wolf does, I am with you on this ….. She is all B & B ( Botox & Bones)
I am into brains ……. this is a lost case lol
Reply@Alif:
Why does this person’s race matter ALIF? The story is beyond distubring but, what does race have to do with it?
ReplyAs I understand it, in the really top hotels, the key cards make a record of when they were used, so unless he let someone in, there should be a record of the comings and goings. Also, I think, in light of the terrorist situation, etc, hotels are lot more aware of who’s going in and out.
Reply@Keane:
Hi my darling! No doubt you’re sleeping … It’s 12:40 a.m. and still light outside! I LOVE THIS TIME OF YEAR!!! I haven’t gone anywhere. We have been having the most ASTOUNDING weather and have been spending every possible MOMENT outside. I’ve even taken off a couple days from work in order to have more time to enjoy it. Winters are long and summers are short, so Alaskans can live an entire YEAR in just a couple of months! LOL. Not only that, but bashing folks isn’t really my MO to begin with (know what I mean??), so it’s HIGHLY unlikely I’ll be going to another site that bashes this one anytime soon!
But my goodness … WHAT has been going on around here??????? So many mean people coming outta the wood work! I can’t believe how horribly a few of you have been attacked. I was really bummed when Kate decided to take a break … but I can’t say I blame her. I’ve noticed quite a few posters showing up with absolutely NO interest whatsoever in the thread. Their sole intent is to attack, and they do. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out THAT one! That Poopex person was just scary weird … like stalker weird. And what DebFromHell (okay … I have a problem with that name LOL) wrote about Ian responding to her thinking it was you he was responding to … or something like that) … was creepy too. Fortunately, DFH was upfront about having received that and more likely than no you can believe that she won’t do anything with any information she may have received. But Poops disturbed me quite a bit. Such hatred is WEIRD!
I wonder if part of why Ian is not putting up new posts is to let some of this dust settle.
PATTY ANN … I saw nothing even remotely antagonistic in your responses to a certain poster (was it Liin???? or something like that??) BTW … prayers are being sent out for your upcoming surgery.
Reply@Togi:
Hey wasn’t me, I’m one of the loyal community!
ReplyDawn on Glosslip says his murder was Scientology related:
Replyhttp://glosslip.com/2009/06/04/new-details-emerge-about-david-carradines-death-including-his-scientology-connections/
@Togi:
So, I’m looking for postings from Poops…POOPS????….what good can come from a name like that! LOL
ReplyMan…I was off this site for like a week and I missed the good shit!!!!!!!! Got on yesterday and started on the FF thread everyone was talking about and it disappeared in mid-read. Then, I was trying to piece together the activity from the weekend but I’m gonna have to take some time to get some reading in today or later this week!!
@Patty Anne:
ReplyMaybe he died some other way and all of that (dressing up, tying up etc) was done after the fact to make it seem like the “auto erotic thingie”. Just an idea!
Thank you for your reaffirmation. Hopefully they will decide to discuss their blogs topics, they have several to select from, and not use that blog to bash IAN, and many of us. So kindergarten@Togi:
ReplyI thought there would be updates on this in the morning’s papers, however, nothing! I know DC’s family is performing another autopsy when they receive his body. Many questions surrounding his death. If it was indeed auto-erotic, let him rest in peace for his bad choice of a risky sexual preference, performed i have researched to heighten sexual orgasm, not kill ones self. Either way, it’s a real eye opener into the lives of celebs that our kids admire and wish to emulate isn’t it?
Replyhttp://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/entertainment/view/434741/1/.html
The latest update about David Carradine’s death…not much new information here though.
ReplyThey reported he was desperate for money, and had approached the producers to get some jobs, but i doubt very much that he would ever have committed suicide at this point of his life. Usually when a relatively healthy reaches the advanced age of 72, they fear death’s aproach rather than embrace it…and….with his history of kinky, far out, unusual sexual preferences, i can easily see a sex act gone horribly wrong, but here again, i do not believe that he was alone at the time. I’ve done some Googling on auto-erotic asphyxiation, and one cardinal rule is never alone! Always have safety precautions in place….as this act has a very long history , back to 1600’s in fact, of going wrong. It was stated that every year, up to 1,000 American’s die from this….horrible. All that for a few seconds of pleasure. I get that from Reeces Peanut Butter Cup….lol@ladybert62:
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyTrue it would be easier to have a partner but it seems that most do it to themselves, by themselves which is what it sounded like when his 3rd wife said she walked in on him stringing himself up…I agree with you, though, I too believe there was someone else with him when he died and he/she got the hell out of dodge and left him in the room to be discovered…
Carradine’s Ex — David’s Obsession Christ-like
Posted Jun 9th 2009 9:14AM by TMZ Staff
One of David Carradine’s ex-wives tells us David’s obsession with auto-erotica went so far, it involved Jesus.
Gail Jensen — Carradine’s third wife — says she came home one day and — starting at the door — there were post-it notes with arrows leading into the basement.
Jensen says she followed the notes and found Carradine hanging from a rope, emulating Jesus Christ in body position. Jensen asked him what he was doing. David’s response: “I really would like a sandwich.”
Jensen says they were having people over, but David stayed in the basement while the guests ate upstairs. Gail says she went down to the basement several times to give him food and wine. Several hours later, he untied himself and joined the party.
Now i know why they call it Holly Weird!
Reply@Patty Anne:
ReplyOh….my….GAWD!!!! Very, very, very weird.
@CC:
ReplyHI Patty Anne – I read this article and found it hard to believe: how could he tie himself in a “christ-like” position (arms spread out? Dont you need someone else to tie up one hand/arm?) Also, I found his request for a sandwich silly – just untie yourself (or get your helper) silly boy if you need nourishment! This article just did not ring true to me? Did you believe it?
I did some reading up on auto-exotic asphyxiation and yes, i do believe it. They study for hours, days , how to devise a new concept of erotic positioning for this purpose. I read where David Carradine ( one of his ex wives said this) would spend months drawing, designing, measuring, and creating his next auto-erotic asphyxiation scenario. Also, he comes off as rather “unbalanced” to me, to put it mildly. He was more than just obsessed with this imo, he was mentally ill. It took over most of his lifetime i feel, due to reading back to his early days with Barbara Hershey and the start of his Kung Fu series. Another case of an actor falling into the fantasy of believing he truly is his character in a film.@ladybert62:
Reply@Togi:
I know, we have to stop encouraging them by responding I think otherwise it will never end. Look forward to seeing you when the weather goes bad again, we are having a bad spell in the UK again hence my presence here! When it perks up again I’m outta here! Speak soon x
Reply@Liin:
xx
ReplySORRY LIIN!!!!!! I should have looked back but was too stinking LAZY!
@PLANTONANGIESPAYROLL:
ReplyWhat does race have to do with it? You tell me.
I’m only reporting what was on tv!
Re: the photo in the hotel room. I think it looks like a much younger male.
Re: Cyber bullies. Just like the bullies who hide behind groups; and/or pick on someone smaller than them on the playgrounnd, or on the street; THEY ARE COWARDS!
So ignore them. Pray for them. They get in a panic when they are in our prayers. They are too used to hatred. They cannot abide love.
If someone is baiting you, ignore them.
ReplyAnd from here-on I will not respond to these sad cases. I will, however, remember them in my prayers.
You will already know WHY I am not wasting time and energy on them.
Not that I want them to quiver in panic! No!
@Alif:
ReplyYou know exactly what I meant. I don’t forward links to people or tell them about stories and specifically mention the person’s race. You post wreaks of race baitings. What was on the news was the actual stories. Ignorance is bliss.
http://www.tmz.com/
According to the owner of Susie’s Delights in Tarzana, CA, Carradine was a regular in the store — shopping there a few times a month for years. The owner tells us Carradine owned almost every piece of bondage equipment in the store.
The order Carradine placed three weeks ago included women’s lingerie, stockings, a few pieces of bondage equipment and three bondage DVDs. Some of the items were on back order and Carradine was supposed to come back and pick them up a few weeks later. He never did.
The owner told us when Carradine placed the order he talked to her for almost an hour, saying he was upset because he felt his wife was unhappy with him.
The photo gallery (above) includes various items the owner says Carradine purchased in the store.
Reply@Patty Anne:The wife is a scientologist. And I’d forgotten about this, Keith Carradine’s ex-wife used Anthony Pellicano (also used by the Sci’s) to wiretap his phone during their divorce.
Replyhttp://www.rr.com/entertainment/entertainment/article/9006/8022416/AP_Exclusive_Carradine_brothers_speak
AP Exclusive: No Carradine suicide, expert says
Published – Jun 11 2009 05:36PM EDT
By ANTHONY McCARTNEY – AP Entertainment Writer
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(AP Photo/Michel Euler, File)
FILE – This May 17, 2003 file photo shows American actor, David Carradine, smiles as he arrives for the screening of the documentary”Ghosts Of The Abyss,” during the 56th Film Festival in Cannes, France.
The forensics expert hired by David Carradine’s family has concluded that the “Kung Fu” actor did not commit suicide, but said that more information was needed from Thai investigators before the cause of death could be determined.
Carradine’s brothers, Keith and Robert Carradine, each read part of a prepared statement to reporters from The Associated Press at a Los Angeles hotel Thursday morning. In their first appearance since their older brother was found hanging in a Bangkok hotel room closet last week, they thanked supporters and asked for privacy.
“This is a devastating loss for our family and we greatly appreciate the compassion pouring in from all over the world,” Keith Carradine said.
They also released a statement by Dr. Michael Baden of New York that indicated a second autopsy determined Carradine didn’t kill himself.
“However, to reach a final determination as to the cause and the manner of death we must wait for further information from Thailand as to the scene findings and the completion of the crime laboratory and toxicology studies that are still being performed,” Baden’s statement said.
Reached by phone after the morning briefing, Baden said he expects to receive more information from Thai authorities in a week or two and stressed that the information at hand was incomplete. Baden didn’t elaborate on how suicide was ruled out
“The autopsy is only part of the analysis,” he said.
In the meantime, Robert Carradine asked the public and press for patience and time to allow the family to grieve.
“Until we have all of the pending results of the investigation we respectfully ask … that we be allowed to lay our beloved brother, husband, father, grandfather and great-grandfather to rest in peace and with dignity,” Robert Carradine said.
Rampant speculation about the actor’s death has swirled since a chambermaid at the luxury Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel in Bangkok discovered his body hanging in the closet of his room June 4. A Thai newspaper published a graphic photo of the death scene that police have said appears to be a leaked forensics image
Baden is top notch forensic scientist, but i’m curious how he determined it to not be suicide when he admits the results are …. incomplete?
ReplyI apologise, but you could not paint little bit more in detail.
Reply